[Here-am-I]

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

I think this is something Christian filmmakers should be striving for. I'll be the first to admit I can be a bit of a snob, but it irritates me that mediocre (or even just plain bad) movies are worshiped and hailed as masterpieces simply because they're sold in Christian bookstores, or espouse an openly Christian worldview. The result is that Christians have no motivation to aspire to excellence in film, and the result of that is that -- to put it bluntly -- there are few Christian films that I would take my non-Christians friends to see without being embarrassed that they're the best we have to offer. The Prince of Egypt is an exception. My non-Christian friends love it because it's an exceptionally-made animated musical movie, and it's actually gotten some of them to talk to me about my faith.

The only two other Christian-themed movies I'd say I enjoyed were Fireproof and The Passion of the Christ, but both to me felt like movies made solely for churchgoers. Fireproof had a good message but lousy acting and some truly terrible writing. The Passion was excellent on a technical level (music, cinematography, costumes, lighting) but tended toward inappropriate melodrama and focused too minimally on who Jesus actually was. These are problems that Christians seem willing to overlook, but that say to non-Christians, "The only reason you don't like our movie is because you don't like Jesus." That to me is a bad, and repellent, attitude.

I agreed up until you started talking about Fireproof and The Passion. :-P

I'm a person who is quick to say that Christian organizations make lousy movies, but when I saw Fireproof, I was really impressed. I mean, the acting isn't A+ or anything, but compared to other Christian movies (like Facing The Giants, for example... which was even made by the same people), it was superb. Yeah, it's primarily aimed towards church-goers, but I can definitely see non-Christians watching this movie and enjoying it.

As for The Passion, I think it definitely has more of an impact on Christians because it provides a very real visualization of what Jesus may have went through when he was crucified. Makes them really see the seriousness of it. But it was also VERY well made, which, I think, makes it enjoyable for anyone. And I'd like to think that if a non-christian saw it and enjoyed it, they would go home and do some research to find out who Jesus was and why he went through what he did in the movie.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by Here-am-I

I'm a person who is quick to say that Christian organizations make lousy movies, but when I saw Fireproof, I was really impressed. I mean, the acting isn't A+ or anything, but compared to other Christian movies (like Facing The Giants, for example... which was even made by the same people), it was superb. Yeah, it's primarily aimed towards church-goers, but I can definitely see non-Christians watching this movie and enjoying it.

I hated Facing the Giants, so I definitely agree that Fireproof is better. But honestly, I'd like to see the day when there are Christian movies that we can praise as more than just "good compared to other Christian movies." Again, remember C.S. Lewis -- he wasn't just "better than the other Christian writers," he was one of the best writers of his day, period. His work could stand next to some of the best secular writers of his day and hold its own. Honestly, the same is just NOT true of Fireproof. It's an enjoyable and decently made movie with a good message, but it's not even in the same league as the best secular movies being made. And that's not a fault of the budget -- you don't need a huge budget to write a good screenplay. The Fireproof script was just bad (in my opinion), way too preachy and heavy-handed. And maybe some non-Christians could see it and enjoy it, but they certainly wouldn't have the incentive that Christians do to over-praise it and ignore its shortcomings just cause it wears a Gospel t-shirt.

Originally Posted by Here-am-I

As for The Passion, I think it definitely has more of an impact on Christians because it provides a very real visualization of what Jesus may have went through when he was crucified. Makes them really see the seriousness of it. But it was also VERY well made, which, I think, makes it enjoyable for anyone. And I'd like to think that if a non-christian saw it and enjoyed it, they would go home and do some research to find out who Jesus was and why he went through what he did in the movie.

The Passion was definitely well-made; I said I admire its technical aspects. My problem with it was that by focusing so much on Jesus's suffering and so little on his teachings and who he was as a person, the movie's very likely to alienate people who don't already know the Gospel story by heart. Honestly, to a non-Christian who doesn't know or care about Jesus, the movie is essentially a gore film, 2 hours of watching a random man get beaten to death in gruesome detail. Frankly, there's nothing enjoyable about that at all, and the only reason somebody would sit through 2 hours of that is to ponder the underlying meaning of his pain and sacrifice. If a non-Christian doesn't know or care about those things, what would they get out of the film? Of course, if one of them were to watch it and be inspired to go home and do some research, more power to them (and to the movie). I just know of a lot more people for whom that wasn't the case.

[Here-am-I]

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

I hated Facing the Giants, so I definitely agree that Fireproof is better. But honestly, I'd like to see the day when there are Christian movies that we can praise as more than just "good compared to other Christian movies." Again, remember C.S. Lewis -- he wasn't just "better than the other Christian writers," he was one of the best writers of his day, period. His work could stand next to some of the best secular writers of his day and hold its own.

Agreed.

And that's not a fault of the budget -- you don't need a huge budget to write a good screenplay.

I disagree. In most cases, if you want excellent quality, you pay for it. Sure, some oober-talented writer could volunteer to write an amazing script for little or no money... but do really see that as a possibility? A huge budget definitely helps in making movies. I do see your point though.... a small budget should not be an excuse for poor quality.

The Fireproof script was just bad (in my opinion), way too preachy and heavy-handed. And maybe some non-Christians could see it and enjoy it, but they certainly wouldn't have the incentive that Christians do to over-praise it and ignore its shortcomings just cause it wears a Gospel t-shirt.

I think that Fireproof was a lot less preachy than other movies I've seen. I would say in the parts when the guy is talking to his dad, yes. Very preachy with very bad acting. The majority of the movie really wasn't that terrible though, in my opinion. I totally agree about what you said above though. I can't wait for the day when Christian movies are compared in a positive manner to more than just other Christian movies.