MLB 2009

***Art*** · 10-09-2009, 01:36 PM

Yes, my favorite team plays in the NL, but I also watch the A's on a fairly regular basis, and I am a baseball fan, not an NL fan. I think that the DH is a pollution of the sport, and I'm glad that I don't have to watch it happen with my favorite team.

I'm not going to argue it any further than this, though.

**thesteve** · 10-09-2009, 01:46 PM

I think it would be interesting to compile a list of DH's stats and compare NL vs. AL. My argument isn't so much that there are big name DHs or not big name DHs, but that these DHs get to play pretty much every day. The NL DH's are typically pinch hitters and the like. Sure there are some teams that will move a position player into the DH slot and have the reserve in the field, but from what I've seen this is atypical.

For example, when the Dodgers played the Angels in Anaheim, the Angels DH was Guerrero, who ended up playing in 100 games and having 383 AB during the season. The Dodgers DH (for one game at least) was Mitch Jones...who played in 8 games and had 13 ABs.

I don't think the pitcher hitting comparison really works as well because pitchers in general hit poorly. In crunch situations it may be a factor, but how often do pitchers come to the plate with the expectation that they will get on base or start a rally?

tmlfan123 · 10-09-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

I think it would be interesting to compile a list of DH's stats and compare NL vs. AL. My argument isn't so much that there are big name DHs or not big name DHs, but that these DHs get to play pretty much every day. The NL DH's are typically pinch hitters and the like. Sure there are some teams that will move a position player into the DH slot and have the reserve in the field, but from what I've seen this is atypical.

For example, when the Dodgers played the Angels in Anaheim, the Angels DH was Guerrero, who ended up playing in 100 games and having 383 AB during the season. The Dodgers DH (for one game at least) was Mitch Jones...who played in 8 games and had 13 ABs.

Yes it's an advantage for the Angels to have a Guerrero DHing against a Mitch Jones, but it's made possible by the presence of Juan Rivera and Bobby Abreu. The Angels are just deeper than the Dodgers, and with this rule, they have a more obvious way to show it. (Don't you think the Dodgers would love to have a Juan Rivera as a pinch-hitter/part-time DH? But they have Mitch Jones). And they also have Juan Pierre and Jim Thome as options, I believe. For some reason they used Jones.

It's not nearly the same when Baltimore or Detroit plays the Dodgers. Ty Wigginton hit .273 with 11 homers and a .714 OPS this year. Marcus Thames: .252-11-.777. The Angels are just good. They had Aybar batting ninth. The guy hit .312 this year!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

I don't think the pitcher hitting comparison really works as well because pitchers in general hit poorly. In crunch situations it may be a factor, but how often do pitchers come to the plate with the expectation that they will get on base or start a rally?

A fifty point difference in batting average between pitchers is the same as a fifty point difference in batting average between DHs.

**thesteve** · 10-09-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmlfan123

A fifty point difference in batting average between pitchers is the same as a fifty point difference in batting average between DHs.

You have to look at factors other that BA though. How many pitchers can hit a sac fly on a regular basis when there's a runner on third and less than 2 outs? I bet most DHs could.

Interestingly enough I found these stats for the 2009 season (I had to compile some of them)...

DH BA for AL: .255
DH BA for NL: .277

An AL DH gets an RBI every 6.5 AB
A NL DH gets an RBI every 7.2 AB

An AL DH hit a HR every 22.2 AB
A NL DH hit a HR every 24.7 AB

An AL DH Ks every 4.4 AB
A NL DH Ks every 5.1 AB

P BA for AL: .097
P BA for NL: .138

P AB/RBI AL: 22.9
P AB/RBI NL: 18.5

P AB/HR AL: 137.5
P AB/HR NL: 198.1

P AB/K AL: 2.2
P AB/K NL: 2.5

Based on this I would conclude that the DH has a greater impact on a team's offense than a pitcher does. I did find it interesting that NL DHs had a higher BA than their AL counterparts, however on the whole they also put put lower power numbers (while also striking out less). The NL pitchers did better than their AL counterparts in every category except HRs. I remain unconvinced that this disparity is as significant as the differences in power numbers between DHs though.

**Shift** · 10-09-2009, 07:13 PM

There are a lot less beanings in the NL, that's for sure.

**thesteve** · 10-09-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shift

There are a lot less beanings in the NL, that's for sure.

There were actually over 100 more HBPs in the NL than the AL in 2009.

**Shift** · 10-09-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

There were actually over 100 more HBPs in the NL than the AL in 2009.

HBP is not necessarily a beaning in my mind... maybe I am totally off base on this one, but it does seem like pitchers are a little more reluctant to nail a guy in the back or throw behind him when they know they'll be taking their medicine like a man in the next inning.

**thesteve** · 10-09-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shift

HBP is not necessarily a beaning in my mind... maybe I am totally off base on this one, but it does seem like pitchers are a little more reluctant to nail a guy in the back or throw behind him when they know they'll be taking their medicine like a man in the next inning.

There is that perception, but I don't know if it's true. Very rarely will you see a pitcher go after another pitcher. Typically the exchange of hit batsmen is done between two players of similar quality.

***Art*** · 10-09-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

There is that perception, but I don't know if it's true. Very rarely will you see a pitcher go after another pitcher. Typically the exchange of hit batsmen is done between two players of similar quality.

Totally. And in the NL, you find a lot of managers who firmly believe in these rules. Dusty Baker is definitely one.

tmlfan123 · 10-09-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

You have to look at factors other that BA though. How many pitchers can hit a sac fly on a regular basis when there's a runner on third and less than 2 outs? I bet most DHs could.

Interestingly enough I found these stats for the 2009 season (I had to compile some of them)...

DH BA for AL: .255
DH BA for NL: .277

An AL DH gets an RBI every 6.5 AB
A NL DH gets an RBI every 7.2 AB

An AL DH hit a HR every 22.2 AB
A NL DH hit a HR every 24.7 AB

An AL DH Ks every 4.4 AB
A NL DH Ks every 5.1 AB

P BA for AL: .097
P BA for NL: .138

P AB/RBI AL: 22.9
P AB/RBI NL: 18.5

P AB/HR AL: 137.5
P AB/HR NL: 198.1

P AB/K AL: 2.2
P AB/K NL: 2.5

Based on this I would conclude that the DH has a greater impact on a team's offense than a pitcher does. I did find it interesting that NL DHs had a higher BA than their AL counterparts, however on the whole they also put put lower power numbers (while also striking out less). The NL pitchers did better than their AL counterparts in every category except HRs. I remain unconvinced that this disparity is as significant as the differences in power numbers between DHs though.

These are really interesting statistics. Basically all I'm seeing for the DHs is that NL guys tend to be higher BA, less power type guys whereas the AL sends more power guys to the plate(although that's not a huge disparity in power numbers by any means). Personally, I think I'd take the average NL DH over the average AL DH.

***Art*** · 10-09-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmlfan123

These are really interesting statistics. Basically all I'm seeing for the DHs is that NL guys tend to be higher BA, less power type guys whereas the AL sends more power guys to the plate(although that's not a huge disparity in power numbers by any means). Personally, I think I'd take the average NL DH over the average AL DH.

The thing is, the NL managers often use someone from their regular lineup as DH, and move someone else into their spot in the field. I really think that skews the numbers.

**thesteve** · 10-09-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art

The thing is, the NL managers often use someone from their regular lineup as DH, and move someone else into their spot in the field. I really think that skews the numbers.

I was actually about to make that comment. Unfortunately I don't know if there's anything on Baseball-reference.com that would break things down that far.

For example, when the Mets played at their AL interleague opponents, Gary Sheffield was the DH and they had a defensive replacement for him in the outfield.