[Qingu]

Originally Posted by Chrysostom

In the abstract, it could be either, of course. In the real world, I'm no politician and don't have anywhere near the qualifications to understand whether the plan is a good one. I do know enough to tell you that McCain's gas tax holiday was a really terrible idea -- because the error is so basic and the experts so unanimous -- but I don't have the kind of knowledge necessary to make this kind of judgment. I'd say that with respect to McCain's gas tax holiday you'd be better off doing nothing, but with this Obama plan it would be arrogant for me to say whether it's a good idea.

Arrogant? I don't think it's arrogant, I think it's your responsibility, as a member of democratic society, to at least research this question and come to some conclusion for yourself. I think it's admirably humble to admit that you lack expertise in this area—most people do. But you don't need to be a professional climatologist to have an informed opinion on global warming; you don't need to be a professional doctor to have an informed opinion on how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases. By sitting on the sidelines, you are not avoiding arrogance—you are simply embracing apathy.

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by Qingu

Arrogant? I don't think it's arrogant, I think it's your responsibility, as a member of democratic society, to at least research this question and come to some conclusion for yourself.

Well, I'm a pretty crappy American, to be honest, and I'm not particularly compelled to live up to this calling; in fact I see it as a false responsibility.

Originally Posted by Qingu

But you don't need to be a professional climatologist to have an informed opinion on global warming;

It depends on the kind of opinion you're talking about. I have the kind of knowledge necessary to say "there was a cooling trend here" and "there is a warming trend here," because I've got good reason to trust the measurements and I do quite a bit of chart-reading (and know what charts would be relevant). I don't have the kind of knowledge, experience, or skill to be able to interpret that too much, though.

Originally Posted by Qingu

you don't need to be a professional doctor to have an informed opinion on how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases.

That's not a judgment that involves any specialized knowledge. It just involves knowing the basics about sex, which I do, and if a disease is transmitted by sex then the way to avoid that disease is not to have sexual contact with somebody who has it. It's like knowing that the gas tax holiday was a terrible idea -- you just need to know the basics, which I do.

[Qingu]

Originally Posted by Chrysostom

Well, I'm a pretty crappy American, to be honest, and I'm not particularly compelled to live up to this calling; in fact I see it as a false responsibility.

I am glad that you do not conflate your Christianity with insipid nationalism, as many American Christians do. But I hope it's obvious that that's not what I'm talking about here.

I'm a pretty crappy American too. I'm certainly not patriotic—there are plenty of first-world democracies in which I'd rather live. I'm not talking about patriotism, or nationalism—I'm talking about being a citizen of the world.

As a citizen of a first-world democracy, you have a limited amount of power to affect the rest of the world. We can disagree on the extent of this power, but at minimum you can vote, and you can freely talk to people about how and why you are voting. That is power, and as Spiderman's uncle says, with great power comes responsibility.

You can throw this power to do good away because you want to characterize yourself as a subject of the magical and invisible "Kingdom of Heaven" instead of as a citizen of the world. Certainly "the world" is portrayed as evil and decaying in your religion, well-deserving of the sadistic punishment promised upon it in Revelation. Your "true" responsibility lies to this afterlife world, not our current world.

I think this is a death-cult mentality.

[Chrysostom]

Originally Posted by Qingu

I'm a pretty crappy American too. I'm certainly not patriotic—there are plenty of first-world democracies in which I'd rather live. I'm not talking about patriotism, or nationalism—I'm talking about being a citizen of the world.

I'm a pretty crappy Westerner too.

Originally Posted by Qingu

You can throw this power to do good away because you want to characterize yourself as a subject of the magical and invisible "Kingdom of Heaven" instead of as a citizen of the world. Certainly "the world" is portrayed as evil and decaying in your religion, well-deserving of the sadistic punishment promised upon it in Revelation. Your "true" responsibility lies to this afterlife world, not our current world.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Congrats.