Demon Hunter is not secular just because they scream

**thesteve** · 07-28-2008, 07:46 PM

In a way (though roundabout) we are discussing perceptions of Demon Hunter and how/why people perceive certain styles of music in a given way.

For what it's worth, if you're looking for fellowship, the individual band forums, particularly a thread on the topic of whether or not a band should be considered Christian and the outside perceptions that causes such a band to be considered non-Christian isn't the best part of the forum for that.

guitarplayer917 · 07-28-2008, 07:50 PM

I know that ya'll are believers, and i don't expect you to agree with me. why i coined the term Fellowship. And i am not dissing this site, its a great sight, my first i have ever been apart of, but im not one to debate. If you think i have a flawed perception, then tell me why. If God tells you to give up guitar then yes, but there is a parable that says you can't please everybody, so no, don't stop playing guitar because other belivers tell you to, but be careful what you play for non-believers. (not YOU, just exampling).

We started out with DH, then excelerated, i was looking for opinions on different bands and how they work with christianity

Demon_Hunter · 07-28-2008, 07:53 PM

And what should we be playing for nonbelievers?

*edit*

And when YOU are typing over 100wpm average, you can tell me about a couple of mispells here and there.

guitarplayer917 · 07-28-2008, 07:56 PM

whatever the Lord tells you
My keyboard sucks. its probably the earliest windows laptop there is, not excusing though..

Demon_Hunter · 07-28-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarplayer917

whatever the Lord tells you
My keyboard sucks. its probably the earliest windows laptop there is, not excusing though..

But for some reason Metal has the apearance of evil, and we should abstain from it? Even if the Lord may be telling Ryan and Don Clark to continue with Demon Hunter?

guitarplayer917 · 07-28-2008, 08:06 PM

If the Lord tells Clark an them to stick with it, then they should, but Bible say to abstain from all appearances of evil, the way it it associated to evil is..... a couple of secular freinds in school said that they dont listen to the words, just the beat and music, so whats the diff, between DH, metanoia, and all the other heavy metal, even the ones who DO have sex and do drugs, they should stand out. There is a band called xalt, they brought over 2000 kids to the lord, with heavy metal, but it was a diff. type of metal, the lyrics spoke of how better their life was after excepting the Lord. dunno if ya heard of them.. but thats what i believe. What do you think?

But ow do we know God is telling them to stick with it?......

**thesteve** · 07-28-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarplayer917

whatever the Lord tells you

but earlier you said,

"Your looking for it to be christian right? The Bible says to Sustain from all appearances of evil. If DH is preforming to secular standards to get too secular people, then they are "wrong", in that area. the Bible says to shine for them, not preform for 'em."

and

"And also, they Bible says to make a joyful noise unto the Lord and honor and glorify him, would you want somebody to worship you by screaming their head off and looking like those who despise you? I ain't dissing DH, but i ain't praising them either."

Now, I don't claim to know your heart or the hearts of the guys in Demon Hunter, but what if they feel that being Christians in a metal band is their calling? What if they just see being in a band as a job, and leave religion out of their business? What difference does it make?

I definitely think that I, and others here, have felt like you were condemning Demon Hunter earlier in the thread because you felt like they too closely resembled some secular artists. Now, you have to understand that many, if not most of the members of this site aren't just Christians but also experienced musicians who play music because it's fun and leave socio-cultural pretexts aside to express themselves through their music. Thus we have varied tastes and inspirations and draw from secular and Christian musicians alike. We don't all have the goal to express God through music in the way a worship minister would, but through other forms of creativity, and often this comes across through methods borrowed heavily from the world around us. My point being that by implying that Demon Hunter is doing something wrong, and in this context ungodly, in their music is to, by extension, imply that anyone not explicitly evoking images of God in the minds of all listeners are also doing something ungodly.

Demon_Hunter · 07-28-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarplayer917

If the Lord tells Clark an them to stick with it, then they should, but Bible say to abstain from all appearances of evil, the way it it associated to evil is..... a couple of secular freinds in school said that they dont listen to the words, just the beat and music, so whats the diff, between DH, metanoia, and all the other heavy metal, even the ones who DO have sex and do drugs, they should stand out. There is a band called xalt, they brought over 2000 kids to the lord, with heavy metal, but it was a diff. type of metal, the lyrics spoke of how better their life was after excepting the Lord. dunno if ya heard of them.. but thats what i believe. What do you think?

I think you've never sat down and listen/read demon hunters lyrics one single time. By the way, did you know that DH consider themselves a ministry? That people have been saved at their shows? That Don and Ryan and every member of that band are commited christians? That most every song has some personal spiritual meaning for either Ryan or Don?

Also, the style of Metal is irrelevant. You are trying to say that DH's style of metal contains the appearance of evil, but another style of metal does not?
Thats BS pure and simple. Before there ever were any christian bands playing any style of metal or hardcore there were secular bands playing it first.

Also, you havnt explained how P&W bands arent abstaining from the appearance of evil. I mean... they play pop rock. A big part of the secular pop rock culture is sex and drugs. I think im going to go abstain from some apearance of evil now... wouldnt want Chris Tomlin or Leeland Mooring infecting my soul...

guitarplayer917 · 07-28-2008, 08:16 PM

I am in NO WAY condeming Demon Hunter, just wanted to know what you thought made them christian, compared to the other bands. A verse in Proverbs says "Lean Not Unto Thy Own Understanding, But In ALL Thy Ways, Acknowledge Him, and He Shall Direct Thy Path"
If you like music, you should do everything in it for and with the Lord, as in life, marriage, everything. Thats what the verse says. Ask Him in everything that you do and he will direct your path. Another verse says that, If You Delight Thy Self in the Lord, He will give you the desires of you heart, inthe New Testament i think.

Who's P&W. And yes there are diff types of metal.
And im not here to explain anything, i SAID i would like to share opinions and beliefs. Also said thats what i belive, not what your to do.

Demon_Hunter · 07-28-2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarplayer917

I am in NO WAY condeming Demon Hunter, just wanted to know what you thought made them christian, compared to the other bands. A verse in Proverbs says "Lean Not Unto Thy Own Understanding, But In ALL Thy Ways, Acknowledge Him, and He Shall Direct Thy Path"
If you like music, you should do everything in it for and with the Lord, as in life, marriage, everything. Thats what the verse says. Ask Him in everything that you do and he will direct your path. Another verse says that, If You Delight Thy Self in the Lord, He will give you the desires of you heart, inthe New Testament i think.

Who's P&W. And yes there are diff types of metal.
And im not here to explain anything, i SAID i would like to share opinions and beliefs

But since you are telling us that we must abstain from the apearance of evil, then you do have to explain that. You arent stating an opinion i that instance. You are saying that DH is metal. Metal has the apearance of Evil. We should abstain for the apearance of evil.

Those are your own words. What, in your estimation, makes DH not christian?

For me the fact that all the members are christian, that they boldly profess their faith everywhere they go, that they albums are full of allusions to Christ, Scripture and Christianity...

That Ryan has been a part of the CHRISTIAN MUSIC industry for over a decade...

guitarplayer917 · 07-28-2008, 08:39 PM

I am not telling you to do anything. I have tried to explain what i think, and get back what others think. I am sharing opinion. if it does not follow God or His word, it is evil, i did not say DH is evil, i said the appearance is. Secular people tie Metal with partying, and all that. christian people DO NOT because they know better, we know what they sing and do, secular people do not, and if folks are getting saved thats great, but what about the folks that don't even know that they are christians, how are they to know? I am saying the Bible says to abstain from the appearance of evil, NOT me, if you wish to defy the Bible, thats your choice... I will quote directly from the Bible in my beliefs, if i have misunderstood it in anyway, tell me, but do no tell me what i am saying and am not saying.
And i never said DH is not christian.
What or who is "P&W"
Ill be back later

**thesteve** · 07-28-2008, 08:41 PM

P&W = praise and worship, i.e., the kind of music that is played in many churches in the United States.

Please understand that no one here is attacking you or your beliefs. We're all just trying to gain some level of clarity in regards to what your opinions are on this topic as you have continually remained vague in your responses.

Demon_Hunter · 07-28-2008, 08:52 PM

Its not the vaguery thats bothering me. Its that he contradicts himself within each post!

guitarplayer917 · 07-28-2008, 09:15 PM

I know no one is attacking. how do i cantradict myself? and im not here for me, i wanna know what ya'll think too. It gets confusing reading these forums, and making sense of who said what first, please bear with. Like i said, its my frst web site ive been apart of.

Jeffrey · 07-28-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarplayer917

And how can you tell me and not jeffrey, that i need to check mythology, if my "version" is as bad as his, gun slingos and evil doers,

Sorry man, I just speak as a history teacher. My point is that you have to be careful how you bandy about the "appearance of evil" statement. Nearly everything appears evil to someone!

Quote:

Sustain an abstain mean the same, unless you are an english philosepher or teacher, just a slight bit of meaning is different, out here it is.

What?

Quote:

Blue jeans aren't evil because the Lord says to cover ourselves, just like adam and eve, you offend someone by showing you clevege, but crack, belly button, or tight clothes. If someone gets offended by my baggy jeans, leather boots, buttoned all the way up shirt, belt, and hat, then there is something wrong. Ya, you can wearother outfits, but what about work, on the farm/ranch, jeans are the ONLY thing that hold up, and don't insulate heat.

Talk to the Amish, man. They have interesting reasons why what you and I wear tends toward the appearance of evil.

Quote:

Why are you questioning blue jeans, then saying you go into bars, which are normally associated with hookers, and drunks, unless you specify, christian bar, but then again, you had to witness to the bartender, right?

I wasn't questioning blue jeans, I was making a point. I don't think blue jeans are inherently evil, but put them two sizes too tight on a guy or a girl and you can lead people into temptation. The same type of garment can be neutral, or evil.

And no, it wasn't a Christian bar. When I go into a TGI Friday's or a McDonald's, it's not a Christian place, nor is it a place I have to be.

Quote:

Just the last page of this forum, rick was telling me that we don't know what God delights in, so how can we say that he delights in alcohol? Yes, Jesus turned water into wine, but wine and alcohol are 2 different things, though, associated with each other.

Wine is a type of alcohol, yes. Not merely "associated" with each other. Wine is what we call in logic (I'm not trying to be condescending here) a "species" of the greater genus "alcohol." "Alcohol" covers more terms than "wine," so something can be alcohol without being wine, but something cannot be wine without being alcohol.