[PartTimeLurker]

Originally Posted by Nate

I wanted to address the issue of feeling worthless in general more than this question of extrinsic vs intrinsic value.

I don't feel, however, that "rotten to the core" in the doctrine of original sin means "worthless to the core." I think sinful human beings are still very intrinsically valuable despite their depravity. "Valuable" doesn't equal "good." God didn't die for us in spite of our worthlessness, but in spite of our unrighteousness. To echo my previous post, Christ died to prove that we were not worthless, not because we were worthless. Certainly if you had children (I don't know if anyone here does) you wouldn't call them "worthless" (except perhaps in a fit of anger) whenever they did something wrong. That's just insane, on par with the sociopaths I mentioned earlier. Despite all of our sinning and all of our depravity, we are still inherently valuable.

Hmm, good point Nate I do have kids, and I can relate to that.

I suppose the problem that I have - and I know Nomes has mentioned to me before, too - is why? Why would God see value in us? If it's not because of our positive attributes and characteristics, then why? Is it just because he's God and so he loves everyone in spite of their rottenness?

If so, why does he *seem* to love one person (an Elect, to go *there*) more than another, even to the point of dying for them, while letting the other guy go on his merry little way to hell? (obviously your "Calvinist-ness" will affect how you see that)

And yes, I realise that all of these thoughts are flighty and ephemeral, and there aren't really any concrete answers to be had. Ho hum.

-- Nate