[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I realize now as I look back, just how juvenile I was even as a high school senior. I really do not see much good that can actually come from it.

Do you think if we locked a juvenile 17-year-old in a box for 20 years he would come out mature?

Is it possible that your juvenile dating gave you the experience to have less juvenile dating later?

From my observations, you don't get good at something by not doing it.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by JerryLove

Do you think if we locked a juvenile 17-year-old in a box for 20 years he would come out mature?

No, but I think after one has had the chance to truly handle life on their own, they have a more mature view of life and know themselves better. Thus making dating scenarios less likely to result in heartache or sin.

Is it possible that your juvenile dating gave you the experience to have less juvenile dating later?

Not really. It just gave my wife and I a minefield to navigate early in our relationship.

From my observations, you don't get good at something by not doing it.

From my perspective, getting too good at dating could be a bad thing. dating is not a good goal here. The goal should from a biblical perspective, (which is the accepted presupposition here) not dating in and of itself.

Dating was not difficult once I dealt with who I am, and observing who people are.

[patrick1]

i think high school, in which youre talking about 17 & 18.. is a good time to start out... most girls and guys too are at an age where they are more mature and ready ..

[ApparentlyNothing]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

No, but I think after one has had the chance to truly handle life on their own, they have a more mature view of life and know themselves better. Thus making dating scenarios less likely to result in heartache or sin.



Not really. It just gave my wife and I a minefield to navigate early in our relationship.


From my perspective, getting too good at dating could be a bad thing. dating is not a good goal here. The goal should from a biblical perspective, (which is the accepted presupposition here) not dating in and of itself.

Dating was not difficult once I dealt with who I am, and observing who people are.

Not to discount your experience, because it's just as valid as mine, but my experience was that not being in a relationship till I was 22, I learned a bit about myself outside of relationships. But when I finally found myself in one, I reacted and found out things about myself in the context of a real relationship that I would not otherwise be able to learn... things that may have helped that relationship a lot.

I think the answer to the question of whether a person should date in high school or not is just a complex question that's purely subjective on the individual people involved, and simply can't be given a blanket solution that works in every situation.

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing

I think the answer to the question of whether a person should date in high school or not is just a complex question that's purely subjective on the individual people involved, and simply can't be given a blanket solution that works in every situation.

Exactly.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing

Not to discount your experience, because it's just as valid as mine, but my experience was that not being in a relationship till I was 22, I learned a bit about myself outside of relationships. But when I finally found myself in one, I reacted and found out things about myself in the context of a real relationship that I would not otherwise be able to learn... things that may have helped that relationship a lot.

Agreed, but you were ready to handle it and interpret the relationship correctly, and handle it maturely. I doubt if at 16 or 17 most of us would have been able to.

I think the answer to the question of whether a person should date in high school or not is just a complex question that's purely subjective on the individual people involved, and simply can't be given a blanket solution that works in every situation.

I think there are general guidelines one can draw from the station in life a high schooler is in.

[ApparentlyNothing]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Agreed, but you were ready to handle it and interpret the relationship correctly, and handle it maturely. I doubt if at 16 or 17 most of us would have been able to.

True. But it's really impossible for me to speculate as to what would have happened if I first dated in high school. I think I was relatively mature for my age, but I would be lying if I said I hadn't changed and mature in leaps and bounds since college. All I can really say without trying to speculate is what I experienced. I think there are some high schoolers who are mature enough to date casually. This past year I've met 18 year olds, seniors in high school, who could pass as a person in their 20's in terms of maturity. But of course, there's plenty of, if not most, high schoolers who really are not mature enough to date casually. But I also think that if that high schooler is asking themselves whether they are mature enough or not, it's a good sign that they are. It shows they are willing to subject themselves to self examination and self improvement if they don't meet their own standards. An immature person wouldn't even ask themselves the question.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing

True. But it's really impossible for me to speculate as to what would have happened if I first dated in high school. I think I was relatively mature for my age, but I would be lying if I said I hadn't changed and mature in leaps and bounds since college. All I can really say without trying to speculate is what I experienced. I think there are some high schoolers who are mature enough to date casually. This past year I've met 18 year olds, seniors in high school, who could pass as a person in their 20's in terms of maturity. But of course, there's plenty of, if not most, high schoolers who really are not mature enough to date casually. But I also think that if that high schooler is asking themselves whether they are mature enough or not, it's a good sign that they are. It shows they are willing to subject themselves to self examination and self improvement if they don't meet their own standards. An immature person wouldn't even ask themselves the question.

I was one of those high schoolers by all rights. The thing that concerns me is that unless you have some life experience under your belt and have spent time on your own, a great deal of the concerns of mature dating do not really apply.

Once you have lived on your own, a whole lot of questions arise and get answered and things change. Personally, I think if you know your perspective will change dramatically, pursuing a relationship at that time becomes very difficult.

I don't get the point of casual dating when you know you are fundamentally approaching a massive change.

[JerryLove]

No, but I think after one has had the chance to truly handle life on their own, they have a more mature view of life and know themselves better. Thus making dating scenarios less likely to result in heartache or sin.

So old people don't sin or have broken hearts?

Not really. It just gave my wife and I a minefield to navigate early in our relationship.

I'm amazed that you can speak with complete certainty on what would have happened otherwise. I'm surprised anyone with such a 20/20 ability to tell the results of posited scenerios has ever made any mistakes at all. Surely you saw them coming.

Of course, it's also possible that your dismissal is just untrue and based on unfaunded assumptions. If things were different, then they wouldn't be the same.

From my perspective, getting too good at dating could be a bad thing. dating is not a good goal here. The goal should from a biblical perspective, (which is the accepted presupposition here) not dating in and of itself.

I was referring to relationships.

Dating was not difficult once I dealt with who I am, and observing who people are.

It's interesting. Your one dating experience in HS was difficult. Your one dating experience post HS (with someone you'd already dated) was not. From this you draw conclusions about everyone.

Of course. I know plenty of people who had no real issues with their dating life in HS. I know several married to their HS sweethearts with no trouble. And I know several who had no trouble in HS having great trouble as adults.

So we are really forced with generalities. Yours, as I understand it, is that people should put off dating till they've generally matured.

Mine is that people should move from "nothing" to "married" in an awful lot of steps; and if you don't plan on waiting till your 30s to get married (a problem for women, especially those wanting kids), then you should start having relationships and getting relationship skills far younger.

Besides, as someone once said "women get in their early teens a grace and self understanding that men, if they are lucky, get in their 70s".

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by JerryLove

So old people don't sin or have broken hearts?

No, but one would have hoped that by waiting till one passes a time of great volatility and change, perhaps one has the capability to know ones own self in a much more complete manner and be more mature about matters.

I'm amazed that you can speak with complete certainty on what would have happened otherwise. I'm surprised anyone with such a 20/20 ability to tell the results of posited scenerios has ever made any mistakes at all. Surely you saw them coming.

Its not posited, it was actual...

Of course, it's also possible that your dismissal is just untrue and based on unfaunded assumptions. If things were different, then they wouldn't be the same.

My position is that it is foolhardy to get into a relationship in a time of intense internal change within a person. While its possible to deal with this, the odds are not on your side, and often, both parties change immensely and grow apart during the beginning of the college years. Its not just me that I am basing this off of. I have spent 9 years in college now. I have seen it more often than I care to think about.

I was referring to relationships.

I was referring specifically to dating. Its interesting to note that the skills for casual dating and marriage tend to run contrary to each other. It is a matter of being able to start, versus maintain a relationship. Most of the guys I have met who were "good at dating" sucked at maintaining a relationship long term.

It's interesting. Your one dating experience in HS was difficult. Your one dating experience post HS (with someone you'd already dated) was not. From this you draw conclusions about everyone.

Not true. I am just the easiest target for me to pick on with nobody getting offended. I watch people. And I see lots of people in a time of flux in their life.

Of course. I know plenty of people who had no real issues with their dating life in HS. I know several married to their HS sweethearts with no trouble. And I know several who had no trouble in HS having great trouble as adults.

I can name very few of those who married their high school sweetheart, and those who did for whom it was a successful marriage, I have seen almost none from my generation. I dare say when high school was seen as an end game to education, the life changes faced were different. People are not forced to take on real life so quick and so we are left with less mature people of the same age. Its the same issue as your sheltered home schooler you brought up earlier.

So we are really forced with generalities. Yours, as I understand it, is that people should put off dating till they've generally matured.

generally stabilized as a person, yes. I dare say most people seem to do it by their sophmore year in college, around age 20-21, just from what I seem to see. When they start to get a handle on maturity.

Mine is that people should move from "nothing" to "married" in an awful lot of steps; and if you don't plan on waiting till your 30s to get married (a problem for women, especially those wanting kids), then you should start having relationships and getting relationship skills far younger.

I have no issues with this. Its just that I view that when you begin to start a relationship, you need to do so with the least possibility of just creating excess personal baggage.

Besides, as someone once said "women get in their early teens a grace and self understanding that men, if they are lucky, get in their 70s".

I tend to generally disagree with that statement...

[JerryLove]

Is it possible that your juvenile dating gave you the experience to have less juvenile dating later?

Not really. It just gave my wife and I a minefield to navigate early in our relationship.

I'm amazed that you can speak with complete certainty on what would have happened otherwise.

Its not posited, it was actual...

So you are not positing on what would have happened if you did not date ealier, you actually didn't date earlier...

but you did date earlier, so you are positing on what would have happened if you did not.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by JerryLove

So you are not positing on what would have happened if you did not date ealier, you actually didn't date earlier...

but you did date earlier, so you are positing on what would have happened if you did not.

I think its a fair assumption that if we had remained friends, things would have stayed in the same realm as my high school friends, which I bore no hostility to, except for the ones who turned on me.

Once again, I am positing that if left to the same course as other relationships, that similar relationships would have behaved similarly under similar circumstances. However, we suffered a very hostile breakup in high school at her instigation which led to huge trust issues early on in our dating relationship. It seems simple enough to say, had the dating not occurred, the hostile breakup would not have occurred. Had the hostile breakup not occurred, the trust issues would not have been there in the first bit of dating.

I can say with a fair degree of certainty that those issues would not have occurred. Now as to what would have... that I cannot be so certain of, however, its a fair assumption.

[demonhuntress]

Wow, guys, that was... interesting.

Thanks for everyone's input.

And for now, this guy likes someone else, so the problem is currently... well, no longer a problem. And, furthermore, I'm actually a bit relieved. I'm better at the whole "buddy" thing.