[mulletman]

Originally Posted by The wirerat

It makes sense and it clarifies my point. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
As Ax pointed out in the beginning, and as history explains it, the "rebels" did not just complain about the government's overbearing. They did something about it. They made petitions to the British government, sent over people for discussions. So sitting idly on your but, does not qualify you to become a complainer.

How do you know I don't? How do you know these 'complainers' aren't involved and actively trying to make change happen?

[Ax]

Originally Posted by The wirerat

It makes sense and it clarifies my point. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
As Ax pointed out in the beginning, and as history explains it, the "rebels" did not just complain about the government's overbearing. They did something about it. They made petitions to the British government, sent over people for discussions. So sitting idly on your but, does not qualify you to become a complainer.

They complained a lot first... a WHOLE lot... in fact, most of their first writings to parliament and the king were nothing but complaints...

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Bryan

this is complaining and the kind of attitude that makes me want to say "go live somewhere else"

dissenting would be more like this: this I am fine with

Most Americans who were Uber patriotic a few years ago would have stated that American cars suck (because they did). Why is beef, so much more of a litmus test than cars. US beef could very well suck, and that would mean that our beef was lousy. It might even motivate me to eat more chicken, but it is a ridiculous jump to say someone should leave the country because they dislike our beef. That sir, is insane.

[Bryan]

obviously you didn't get the point I was trying to make. the problem, in my mind, is saying American xxx sucks, without giving any reason why. The same person said both quotes I made. The first was very generallized and reeks of an anti-American mentality. the second quote was specific and gives a valid reason as to why US beef might suck. if they had made their second statement first, I would never have given thought to them going to live somewhere else.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Bryan

obviously you didn't get the point I was trying to make. the problem, in my mind, is saying American xxx sucks, without giving any reason why. The same person said both quotes I made. The first was very generallized and reeks of an anti-American mentality. the second quote was specific and gives a valid reason as to why US beef might suck. if they had made their second statement first, I would never have given thought to them going to live somewhere else.

its not an anti-American sentiment. Its an anti-American beef opinion, which is equally as valid as your opinion that America is the greatest nation bar none. SO they eat the fish in America... who cares. I personally think that American chocolate sucks. I far prefer swiss, and Belgian, however, it would be insane to think that my preference for a food from a foreign land means that I should leave and am un-American. Sorry, thats just laughable.

however, your attitude that they should leave was very un-American.

[Bryan]

you just don't get the point I'm trying to make. I don't know how I can make it any more clear. it has nothing to do with beef.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Bryan

you just don't get the point I'm trying to make. I don't know how I can make it any more clear.

I get your point, I think its an attitude that is antithetical to the founding principles of the country though. If someone just thinks an aspect of America flat out sucks and says so with no explanation, thats their 1st amendment prerogative. If they think America as a whole sucks, and are citizens, it is there choice to stay or go.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I get your point, I think its an attitude that is antithetical to the founding principles of the country though. If someone just thinks an aspect of America flat out sucks and says so with no explanation, thats their 1st amendment prerogative. If they think America as a whole sucks, and are citizens, it is there choice to stay or go.

you're right, it is their 1st ammendment right, doesn't mean I have to like it or doesn't mean I can't wish they'd go live somewhere else and stop complaining for no reason, and that doesn't make it contrary to the founding principles of this nation.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Bryan

you're right, it is their 1st ammendment right, doesn't mean I have to like it or doesn't mean I can't wish they'd go live somewhere else and stop complaining for no reason, and that doesn't make it contrary to the founding principles of this nation.

it is. Ax is right. This country was founded on the right to complain and disagree with the government.

[mulletman]

Originally Posted by Bryan

you just don't get the point I'm trying to make. I don't know how I can make it any more clear. it has nothing to do with beef.

I think the point he is trying to make is that someone stating that "U.S. xxxxx sucks." without giving any reason is very comparable to your statement that the U.S. is the greatest nation in the world, without giving any reason for the statement.....

Or maybe I'm just failing and putting words in BSPE's mouth.

[JerryLove]

forgive me if I think that America happens to be the greatest country in the world.

Son: Dad, why is the American government the best government?
Dad: Because of our endless appeals system.
Dad: You're not writing down what I just said?
Son: Yea, why
Dad: Stop for a second. What is the subject of your essay
Son: why is the American government the best government in the world
Dad: your teacher crafted that question?
Son: Yea, why?
Dad: I'll look past the obvious problems in syntax for a momemnt and I'll focus more on the core of the question. A: Does America have the best government in the world, and B. What constitutes a best government? Is it crime? Is it poverty? Is it literacy? And America definately not best. Possibly not better than most. We do have a very *entertaining* government
Son: Dad.
Dad: Are you familiar with the term "BS"?
Son: ********
Dad: Yes. Exactly. BS, if I may, is what questions like the one your teacher posed are made for. Coz even if America had the best government, there's no way to prove it. and definately not in two pages.

Write about America's amazing ability to make profit by breaking down traiding tarriffs and exporting jobs to third-world countries, or how good we are at executing felons. They are all correct answers.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by mulletman

I think the point he is trying to make is that someone stating that "U.S. xxxxx sucks." without giving any reason is very comparable to your statement that the U.S. is the greatest nation in the world, without giving any reason for the statement.....

Or maybe I'm just failing and putting words in BSPE's mouth.

Bingo. but the other point is that the like it or leave it sentiment is incongruous with our constitution.

[S.B.Nichols]

Why didn't I see this thread before? Complaining for the sake of complaining, under the guise that it is American to do so (as I think a few of you do, though I won't name any names), is foolish and childish. With everything going on with this country there are things that would seem reasonable to complain about. War, taxes, healthcare, etc etc.

The quality of meat? The taste of your tap water? The ppm of KCl in your fruit loops? These are things that generally invoke the reaction of "Get over it and buy your goods elsewhere"

Dissent all you like, as is your right if you're an American. Though, choose carefully what you want to complain about or don't be upset when other Americans think you're an idiot.