[nate95366]

Originally Posted by TaiLova

But what message do I give if I leave?

That, my friend, depends entirely on how you do the leaving. But after reading this thread, I too think it's best to leave. It's also best, IMO, not to come back because by leaving and keeping things open-ended you'll be introducing ulterior motives regarding Christianity into her life. Make a clean break.

Nate

[adamkaboom]

Originally Posted by Iceman-bass14

My sentiments exactly.Honestly Iam not surprised that she has had multiple partners and lied about them.Actions like these are almost to be expected from the unsaved.

Ouch... I have Christian friends who have had multiple partners and lied about it. Actions like this could be expected from anyone... that little something called sin nature. Just because we're Christians and are "saved" doesn't mean we're exempt from such mistakes and telling lies.

[gg7]

Originally Posted by TaiLova

I understand what you're saying. But I don't know how to handle this, seeing as since we've started dating she has begun praying, reading the Bible, and asking so much about Christianity and God. I know that everyone finds God in different ways, and for me to say that I want to help her through it would just be a lame excuse to stay in this relationship. But what message do I give if I leave?

I think you need to be more concerned with what God thinks than what she thinks. God has spoken clearly though the Bible on this one. You can still be friends with her if she allows it though. Then you'd be in the position to answer those questions. If she doesn't want anything to do with you after breaking it off, that's on her. It's out of your hands.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

First of all, I just want to point out something. God working in mysterious ways is a ridiculous excuse to sin. That would not be so much God working in mysterious ways as God working in spite of sin. That in no way justifies sinful behavior.

Honestly... multiple sexual partners is ridiculously common these days, and for some people that would be a deal breaker. I really do not think that makes you less of a man if that would be a deal breaker.

The biggest issue I think here is your integrity and your following scripture. You need to do the right thing here, that you know first. If you do stay in the relationship, it will show you are not serious about your faith if she does become a believer.

If she does things of a religious sort to please you... that can't save her, and there will always be a bit of a doubt as to whether it is you or Christ that is the motivater here.

Basically you backed yourself in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for her when you started dating. However, there is a right and a wrong for your position in the relationship.

Biblically, I have to say I as well am not surprised that an unbeliever would do this. Frankly, I can't think of an unbeliever I know who is saving themselves for marriage, nor can I figure out from a standpoint without scripture as to why they would. Now before anybody runs off and accuses me of being judgemental... my experience has been that most unbelievers I meet these days do not regard sex between two consenting adults who love each other to be wrong. Its not a statement of judgement, it is merely the wretchedly wrong cultural values I hear espoused.

[tht00]

^^ Smilie not intentional. Can't seem to get rid of it.

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Biblically, I have to say I as well am not surprised that an unbeliever would do this. Frankly, I can't think of an unbeliever I know who is saving themselves for marriage, nor can I figure out from a standpoint without scripture as to why they would. Now before anybody runs off and accuses me of being judgemental... my experience has been that most unbelievers I meet these days do not regard sex between two consenting adults who love each other to be wrong. Its not a statement of judgement, it is merely the wretchedly wrong cultural values I hear espoused.

With this, I can most certainly agree... but I'd like to expand it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a believer did this. I'm not justifying or condoning that behavior, but it happens -- and it happens because we, ourselves, are still human and sinful.

Take a look at what Paul says in Romans 7:15,19,20 "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. ... For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

Sorry... it's just that I get sick of this conceited attitude that we (as Christians) are morally upright and even "better" than non-believers -- that's judgmental. Yes, this is a seriously screwed up world (when wasn't it?)... but that gives us no place to be elitist.. that helps no-one. [/end rant]


Ok. Here's another semi-related old thread (on dating non-Christians).. and this time, I'll go ahead and pull a quote from it (I hope Nate doesn't mind ):
http://www.christianguitar.org/forum...=156306&page=2

Originally Posted by Nate

I think it's great that everyone has been trying to give you advice on what to tell this girl, but.....

I say tell her how you really feel. If you really feel that it's stupid that Christians "can't" date non-Christians but you're doing it because you honor your parents, then tell her that. If you think that you don't care (I'm not being facetious or holier-than-thou; you have the right to decide) what Scripture or your parents say (or seem to say, as certainly the "be not unequally yoked" passage is open to at least some interpretation), then decide that for yourself and decide whether this girl is more important to you (again, I'm not being facetious at all).

All of us can give you great theological arguments or advice from our own lives, but it's ultimately useless to you because dating is such a personal thing and your commitment to follow Scripture and your parents is also such a personal thing. You really need to think this thing out for yourself, decide what's important to you (still, not being facetious), and act accordingly. Whatever you decide, I say just tell the girl the truth (whether it's that you're personally convicted that dating a non-believer would not be in your best interest, whether you're only doing it for fear of disappointing your parents, or something else). You'll learn rather quickly as you get older that people value honesty over "white lies," especially in relationships.

(emphasis mine)
Not entirely applicable here, but I think the attitude and message is great... and not something I'm seeing a lot of in this thread.

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by tht00

With this, I can most certainly agree... but I'd like to expand it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a believer did this. I'm not justifying or condoning that behavior, but it happens -- and it happens because we, ourselves, are still human and sinful.

Take a look at what Paul says in Romans 7:15,19,20 "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. ... For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

Sorry... it's just that I get sick of this conceited attitude that we (as Christians) are morally upright and even "better" than non-believers -- that's judgmental. Yes, this is a seriously screwed up world (when wasn't it?)... but that gives us no place to be elitist.. that helps no-one. [/end rant]

This is not how my comment was supposed to come off but i see it was taken the wrong way.Yes i realize that christians do sin and i wasnt trying to be judgemental.Idk how to put it in words now without seeming judgmental but i think Bill put it into good words.

[tht00]

Originally Posted by Iceman-bass14

This is not how my comment was supposed to come off but i see it was taken the wrong way.Yes i realize that christians do sin and i wasnt trying to be judgemental.Idk how to put it in words now without seeming judgmental but i think Bill put it into good words.

Yes, sorry. I didn't intend on aiming all that at you... more towards a mentality I see among Christians too often.

Quick comments can be misunderstood, misrepresented, and the discussion directed away from initial intentions. My apologies on side-tracking the thread and sorry if I came off too strong.

[tlj009]

I think you need to be more concerned with what God thinks than what she thinks. God has spoken clearly though the Bible on this one. You can still be friends with her if she allows it though. Then you'd be in the position to answer those questions. If she doesn't want anything to do with you after breaking it off, that's on her. It's out of your hands.

I disagree with this. The Bible has spoken clearly that it is harmful on yourself and your family to be unequally yoked. But it also gives a hope that the wife can save the husband or the husband can save the wife. There is no reason that dating can't be the same way. The question in my mind is if the person in question is strong enough in their faith to be in this sort of relationship. If you are hung up on the person's past sins, then I doubt that you are strong enough. If you are mad that she lied to you then fine. If you can't be with a non-christian then it is because of your own weakness but it also may be the best for you. My only advice is to be honest with her and yourself over the reason you stay or leave. The truth is that you don't seem to be mad about the lying but that you have your own personal hang up about her past.

[gg7]

Originally Posted by tlj009

I disagree with this. The Bible has spoken clearly that it is harmful on yourself and your family to be unequally yoked. But it also gives a hope that the wife can save the husband or the husband can save the wife. There is no reason that dating can't be the same way.

[nate95366]

Originally Posted by tlj009

I disagree with this. The Bible has spoken clearly that it is harmful on yourself and your family to be unequally yoked. But it also gives a hope that the wife can save the husband or the husband can save the wife. There is no reason that dating can't be the same way.

I don't think there's anyone here who would argue against the possibility of so-called "missionary dating" actually working sometimes (where the non-believer comes to faith, guided along by the believing significant other). It's just that it's so strongly discouraged throughout the Scripture that some of us are reiterating that to a person who hasn't yet "taken the plunge," so-to-speak. In my view, the lying or whatever isn't the big issue here. It's the two different approaches to life thing that's critical.

Nate

[TaiLova]

Originally Posted by tlj009

I disagree with this. The Bible has spoken clearly that it is harmful on yourself and your family to be unequally yoked. But it also gives a hope that the wife can save the husband or the husband can save the wife. There is no reason that dating can't be the same way. The question in my mind is if the person in question is strong enough in their faith to be in this sort of relationship. If you are hung up on the person's past sins, then I doubt that you are strong enough. If you are mad that she lied to you then fine. If you can't be with a non-christian then it is because of your own weakness but it also may be the best for you. My only advice is to be honest with her and yourself over the reason you stay or leave. The truth is that you don't seem to be mad about the lying but that you have your own personal hang up about her past.

You're right about the part of me being hung up on the past.

[tlj009]

I don't think there's anyone here who would argue against the possibility of so-called "missionary dating" actually working sometimes (where the non-believer comes to faith, guided along by the believing significant other). It's just that it's so strongly discouraged throughout the Scripture that some of us are reiterating that to a person who hasn't yet "taken the plunge," so-to-speak. In my view, the lying or whatever isn't the big issue here. It's the two different approaches to life thing that's critical.

Nate

I'm sorry. I was really addressing several comments, but also one in particular that seemed to be saying that it would be a sin to date that person. I don't see that it is a sin. And my advice was and is basically the same as everyone else in that it is not recommended.

[FastRedPonyCar]

I agree with bob that there isn't quite enough circumstancial evidence in here and facts to properly make a 100% judgement call but I'll put it to you this way.

When I met my wife, she was a very good wholesome Christian who was a virgin. I was about the opposite who had slept with plenty of women. I had lost my faith in college and despite all of this, she accepted me and saw great potential in me to become the Christian that I am today.

She could have easily walked away when I told her the exact number of women I had slept with but she forgave me and realized that the past is over and done with and that it's never too late for someone to turn their life around and become a great person.

I'm telling you this becuase I can see it from her perspective. I didn't immediately come out and tell my wife that information becuase I too was scared she would leave me and that something so good and so right that had finally happend in my life would be gone forever. There is a good chance that your GF feels this way as well. A non christian admitting their sins to someone who openly confesses their faith is a very difficult thing to do and unless you had her in a head lock demanding the information, I wouldn't worry about this newly revealed information. She probably regrets her choices in the past (maybe) but she knows it's over and done with and ther'es nothing either of you can do to take those actions back.

I think at this point, if I were you, if you haven't done so already, I would VERY CAREFULLY suggest an STD test. I may be stepping too far with that but who knows if that's another secret she's keeping from you. I would certainly hope that it's not but I don't know this girl and it IS a possiblity. She may totally freak out at this suggestion so that's why I say you use your own best judgement with her as YOU know her and how she may react to something like that. Honestly though, I would seriously hope that if this were information she needed to tell you, she would have done so by now.

Otherwise, I would have an honest sit down talk with the girl and explain to her that you don't care about the past and that all you care about is the present and if she's done shameful things in the past, it's over and done with and you can move on with the relationship. Remember, non christians often don't follow the same rules and morals we do. You can't really convict her of these sins if she didn't know she was sinning. I'm sure she knew it probably wasn't morally right to do but you konw that as christians, we have a much tighter set of moral tolerances and practices we're expected to put into practice.

Letting her know that you forgive her of her past mistakes is the first step of the healing process if you truly want a future with this girl. Once she knows that you're ok with these mistakes, she'll be a LOT more open about admitting past mistakes AND present mistakes. That trust has to be established.