Reganism: Brilliant or short Sighted.

Ax · 01-15-2008, 02:24 PM

I'm getting fed up with all the Republican drivel about returning to Reganism to fix the problems of today. In all honesty, I think our problems with the middle east today stem, in large part, from Regan. In fact, Osama Bin-Ladin probably wouldn't have had enough cash or support to orchestrate 9/11 without Regan installing him as a terrorist big-shot in the 1980's.

It is no secret that Regan was a firm believer in Sun-Tzu's mantra "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" but that is fairly short sighted in the fact that often times in war, there are more than two sides and you have 3 or more sides struggling for supremacy and any foresight into the matter and Regan would have known that giving money and weapons to terrorists would come back to bite us in the hind parts.

Also, do I really have to mention Iran-Contra?

So why then would we want to return to Reganism? His interventionist foreign policy is what got us into this mess...

Now lets move into economics or as it was so aptly titled in the 80's Reaganomics. Reaganomics are, in large part, similar to the economic policies of today... Cut taxes and increase war budget: the key word here being deficit. The deficit under Reagan was, percentagewise, very close to the same deficit we have today. HUGE. Any economic expert knows that that you can't create something out of nothing and that printing more dollars just decreases the value of the ones we already have... The fruits of Reaganomics are obviously inflation, which can be seen today since the dollar is at an all time low.

Why then do we want to return to Reaganism?

mulletman · 01-15-2008, 02:58 PM

Let us not forget, Reganism got a huge quantity of people in Central America killed for no reason. It remains the war no one knows of.

Mattlock · 01-15-2008, 04:07 PM

Where can I find information about his involvement with Iran and Bin Laden?

And how did his construction of nuclear weapons prevent us from going to war with the Soviets?

Ax · 01-15-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattlock

Where can I find information about his involvement with Iran and Bin Laden?

And how did his construction of nuclear weapons prevent us from going to war with the Soviets?

Google. Google is your best friend.

Btw, I did however make a false claim in the original post, it has now been removed.

normajean777 · 01-15-2008, 06:08 PM

Reagan ran a trillion dollar deficit but increased the nations assets by $10 trillion. I think he was brilliant. 2nd best president ever!

mulletman · 01-15-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normajean777

Reagan ran a trillion dollar deficit but increased the nations assets by $10 trillion. I think he was brilliant. 2nd best president ever!

Right behind JFK! And he had a huge part in how the Vietnam war started!

If you haven't understood by now, my opinion of Reagan is rather different than your average American. But when your sister spends a semester living in Honduras, Nicaragua, and other Central American countries, the truth can be rather disillusioning.

normajean777 · 01-15-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulletman

Right behind JFK! And he had a huge part in how the Vietnam war started!

Lincoln is the greatest president.

mulletman · 01-15-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normajean777

Lincoln is the greatest president.

Why, may I ask, do you think Reagan is the second greatest president we've ever had?

normajean777 · 01-15-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulletman

Why, may I ask, do you think Reagan is the second greatest president we've ever had?

Reagans economic policies were great. His tax cuts might of saved the country, and maintained it as the worlds global power. I heard the top tax rate reached up to 80% before the cuts, which is unbelievable if its true.

But although I don't like deficits, the extra military spending help intimidate the Soviets winning the cold war for the US.

JerryLove · 01-15-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normajean777

Reagans economic policies were great. His tax cuts might of saved the country, and maintained it as the worlds global power. I heard the top tax rate reached up to 80% before the cuts, which is unbelievable if its true.

So your entire position is based on a fact you've not checked?

I don't think we should tell you. Go look it up.

Quote:

But although I don't like deficits, the extra military spending help intimidate the Soviets winning the cold war for the US.

We won? How is that working out?

I'm pretty sure wining by bankrupting your opponent is what we tried in Germany in WWI. That didn't cause anyproblems did it?

Ax · 01-15-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normajean777

Reagan ran a trillion dollar deficit but increased the nations assets by $10 trillion. I think he was brilliant. 2nd best president ever!

Source? It's highly debated as to whether it was his policies or not that cause the inflation to subside at the end of the eighties... I would say that since he cut taxes and increased spending, he didn't help a whole lot.

Also, you fail to recognize the fact that it was his inteventionalism and nation building that started the anti-American sentiment in the middle east, put Osama in office, and eventually led to 9/11...

Quote:

Originally Posted by normajean777

Lincoln is the greatest president.

I actually argued this today... Lincoln as the greatest is a red herring... Yes, he kept the union together and freed the slaves but he was a war time president and we know little about his economic policies or his non-war time policies, not to mention the fact that the first couple years he couldn't decide on who he wanted as commander of the Union armies, flip flopped between McClellan and Grant, and almost lost the war to begin with... Lets not forget the fact that to win he had to STARVE and KILL civilians. Ever heard of Total War or Sherman's march to the sea? Yeah, even if he didn't order those atrocities he could have stopped them and didn't. Lets not forget the fact that he didn't actually free the slaves, only those in the rebelling states... He kept his.

Quote:

Originally Posted by normajean777

Reagans economic policies were great. His tax cuts might of saved the country, and maintained it as the worlds global power. I heard the top tax rate reached up to 80% before the cuts, which is unbelievable if its true.

But although I don't like deficits, the extra military spending help intimidate the Soviets winning the cold war for the US.

The cold war simply ended, we didn't win... and now look at the economic situation in Russia, and who do they blame? They blame us... We've even already started to see similar standoffs like the original cold war between Bush and Putin...

Also, 80% taxes... don't make me laugh.

Btw, I think that Monroe or TR would have to be the greatest presidents if you look at it logically... I think they had the best foreign policies... I mean, come on, the Monroe doctrine? How can you not love that?

Mattlock · 01-16-2008, 03:03 PM

TR did start the path for the endless numbers of executive orders, though.

**Fandrew** · 01-16-2008, 04:20 PM

So, Regan intervention in the middle East is Nation building, but TR's foreign policy is brilliant?

Ax · 01-16-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayCarrfan

So, Regan intervention in the middle East is Nation building, but TR's foreign policy is brilliant?

Not exactly. TR's mantra of 'speak softly but carry a large stick' was brilliant. Under TR you didn't see underhanded arms deals that gave power to known terrorists in the idea that they were pawns in a global chess game. Yes, he built the Panama Canal, but that wasn't arming the citizens of Panama. And he didn't cause the secession of Panama from Columbia, but he did embrace it.

As far as his interventionism, he guided peace talks between Germany and France and Russia and Japan, peace talks =/= secretly arming terrorists or funding either side. And he did not do so through force.

Also, can we say, "National Forrest Service"... There's something Republicans and Democrats alike can agree on.

S.B.Nichols · 01-16-2008, 05:07 PM

I think we need to go back to Garfield-ism. Best president ever!

Ha ha, no really. Reagan was a good president. Sometimes I think we Repubs relay on him and his name too much, but he did a lot of good things for the country and the world. He did a lot of strange, not so good things too. I think the same could be said of every president.

Keep in mind, there is some 20/20 hindsight going on too (for example, involvement in Iran and Afghanistan)