Batman and Guns

**JayCarrFan** · 12-27-2007, 02:36 PM

Traditionally, what is Batman's viewpoint on the use of guns? I am well aware he does not utilize them as part of his crime-fighting operations, but where does he draw the line?

I was reading an older Batman comic the other day (mid 1980's) and Batman was impersonating a police officer in order to gain access to a particular piece of evidence in the police station. However, while speaking to an officer in a shooting range, Batman is challenged to some target practice. He then begins to sweat and looks visibly uncomfortable at the thought of even picking up a gun. Instead, he hurls a baton at the target and comments on how there's more than one way to bring a crook down, and with less paper work.

Great story, great comic, but in one just a few episodes later, Brice Wayne is seen shooting skeet at an event.

Thoughts? What's Batman/Bruce Wayne's thoughts on guns in other works?

**Skeeter** · 12-27-2007, 04:25 PM

Back when Batman was first introduced, he used guns as a matter of course, similar to many of the pulp characters he was based on. Similarly, Superman used to be far more callous regarding the deaths of crooks.

Now, of course, both have strict views on killing. Batman will not use guns due to his parents having been shot when he was a boy. It's a psychological aversion as well as a philosophical one. Guns are instruments of murder and little else, in his eyes. That's why he balked at shooting a gun at the firing range: it's a psychological issue. Skeet-shooting is probably more borderline, though I would never have Bruce Wayne firing any kind of gun if I was the writer.

**Jeffrey** · 12-27-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayCarrfan

Traditionally, what is Batman's viewpoint on the use of guns? I am well aware he does not utilize them as part of his crime-fighting operations, but where does he draw the line?

Skeeter anticipates a great deal of my thoughts on the subject. This is one of the reasons I didn't like the Bruce Wayne of Batman Begins.

Originally, Bruce used guns. But to me, Bob Kane isn't sacrosanct, because I really enjoyed how in the fities and sixties, Batman became the ultimate man. As he was contrasted with the Justice League especially in the late sixties, the fact he was a man without powers shaped him into the human voice of the DC superhero community. Yes, there were other unpowered heroes, but Batman represented the best humanity had to offer. As a result, writers began playing up his bloody origin as something that drives him. It was the seventies that introduced the Dark Knight as we know him, despite the groundbreaking work of Frank Miller in the 80's. Denny O'Neil in his stories and his editing really shaped Batman as someone who was effective, yet burdened with some psychoses.

I agree with Skeeter that Wayne shooting guns even in skeet shooting bothers me. Batman's character has shaped to where he doesn't begrudge licensed law operators or licensed citizens the right to defend themselves with guns, but he doesn't need one or want one.

There was a great episode of JLU where Deadman had to possess Batman and then fire a gun in order to save someone's life. Batman was distressed, because he didn't like the idea of a life ending because of a weapon he fired.

Pookey42 · 01-18-2008, 03:08 PM

I think it's cuz' his parents were killed by a gun. And he doesn't want to remember it. But the part of him shooting skeet... I just don't get.

Dr. Doom · 03-28-2008, 02:38 PM

Batman is well trained in using guns. As he said one time, just because he hates them does not mean he should know them and how to use them well.

Batgurl · 03-31-2008, 10:33 PM

I think it is so stupid when characters like Buffy, Wonder Woman, Batman, the new Charlie's Angels etc. don't use guns and then can beat a mob with ak47s. Seriously folks!

I understand certain characters not needing guns--like Superman, etc. I also understand other character's aversion to them (like Batman and the shooting of his parents). But I just don't like the non-use of guns for political statements, when it breaks the honest flow or believability of the story.

But that's just me.

**Jeffrey** · 07-24-2008, 04:13 PM

Also, to revive this, Bruce's politics are rather haphazard. I get the feeling he's a fiscal conservative and would be a non-interventionist mainly because he distrusts big government. Still, I imagine he's not against some form of increased social services (healthcare, etc.) and is a social liberal. I think he'd know first-hand that restricting private gun ownership does not deter criminals from getting firepower. I think he'd be for background checks, waiting periods, and so forth, but would not support gun bans.

Honestly, Bruce is a closet fascist. Look at how he distrusts government, yet maintains a tech-heavy "citizen's arrest" program as the Batman where he infiltrates private businesses, tampers with crime scenes, and has spy satellites and an operative (Oracle) who routinely hacks into private servers and government computers.

I think Bruce would only be happy in an oligarchy where he is one of the sovereigns.

**Skeeter** · 07-24-2008, 04:58 PM

Also, he has severe trust issues. Those that are in his inner circle are given a certain amount of trust but, even then, he is often unable to fully trust them. It's this that would make me wonder whether he would be a social liberal. Perhaps if he was put in charge of those social programs...

**Jeffrey** · 07-24-2008, 05:05 PM

Whoops, I should define "social liberal" better. I mean he's probably pro-gay marriage and that sort of thing. I wonder if he'd be pro-legalization - clearly he hates lawbreakers, but as Batman he'd know his job would be easier if a number of prohibited substances were legal, thus undercutting the violent black market (American Prohibition demonstrated this - when liquor was illegal, organized crime rose up, but when it was re-legalized, those gangs had to disperse).

**Skeeter** · 07-24-2008, 05:25 PM

Hrm, interesting point. Batman has had bad experiences with drugs in the past, however, such as the pre-Bane incident. Obviously, that's a different kind of drug, but it makes me wonder.

**JayCarrFan** · 12-13-2008, 11:35 PM

I'm not usually one to revive a thread, but...

I just watched Batman:Gotham Knight this evening. For those of you who don't know, it's six animated shorts that put together a storyline taking place between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Anyway, in the sixth "episode", Deadshot is featured. Also, Bruce Wayne is portrayed in Wayne Manor holding a gun saying, "I'll never use them, but I understand the allure... the heft, the thrill, the cold steel, the power to change history..." I just thought the scene seemed a little strange.