[wxman_matt]

What do you believe is the shortest amount of time to date that you would say is wise before being engaged? Assume both are mature believers, 22-25 yrs. old, financially capable, etc (i.e. they are in a position to be married and not held back by age, finances, or school).

[passinthru]

There isn't a set formula or length of time that is the "right" length of time. The biggest factor in my opinion is not age or financial stability, but rather how well you know each other. There are many examples in other threads of couple engaged not long after beginning to date that have become very successful marriages. Some of those couples have been friends for years, others have met only months prior. It would also depend on how long of an engagement you are considering and the depth of the relationship that you have.

I can't give you a concrete answer. I don't think that any one can. I would challenge you both to look at why you want to be headed toward marriage after only dating for the shortest amount of time that is "acceptable".

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by wxman_matt

What do you believe is the shortest amount of time to date that you would say is wise before being engaged? Assume both are mature believers, 22-25 yrs. old, financially capable, etc (i.e. they are in a position to be married and not held back by age, finances, or school).

Long enough to know each other very well, and know each others annoying quirks, to where marriage will bring minimal surprises and know that they want to spend every day of the rest of their lives with said person.

[emily4god]

If you think you are ready to get married, and want to know your partner more before you live together, you can try pre-marriage councelling. A lot of churches offer this and it helps you to get to know your partner in many ways and more than just spiritual. You can learn a lot about each other - like worries, expectations, habits. You can have a chance to bring up things you might not talk about in normal conversation. It could be something to consider if you have been dating for a short time but think you are ready for marriage/engagment. I know a few couples who have done it and it has worked out so far for them...

[madd beast yo]

Originally Posted by wxman_matt

What do you believe is the shortest amount of time to date that you would say is wise before being engaged? Assume both are mature believers, 22-25 yrs. old, financially capable, etc (i.e. they are in a position to be married and not held back by age, finances, or school).

Ok Yeah, I kno im young, but I think if you love the person and care about them more than anyone and anything, and would be willing to do anything for them, and know them as well as anyone else, thats all that matters.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by madd beast yo

Ok Yeah, I kno im young, but I think if you love the person and care about them more than anyone and anything, and would be willing to do anything for them, and know them as well as anyone else, thats all that matters.

Thats not all it takes.

[wxman_matt]

I ask this as much philosophically as practically. Yes, I'm in a fairly new relationship, and yes, we've thought of marriage. But this is a situation that many of my good, strong Christian friends have discussed and debated over the last couple of years. Some of us hold closer to the view that dating should be a period to identify any red flags that might not be visible outside of a dating relationship. In theory, that shouldn't take overly long to do. Others of us hold to the view that you need to date for a long time (say a year or two) before you can really know if you and the person you're dating are right for each other).

I would fall more into the former camp of thinking, but not without realizing that each situation and relationship is different and has its own set of circumstances that affect the relationship. I like Bill's reply and would say that I would have similar standards, and I suppose that determining when you have reached that point can only be done by discerning the will of the Lord.

I suppose a secondary question that I've thought of and discussed some but would love to hear others opinions on is the following: Say that a couple were to get engaged (or want to get engaged) after a relatively short dating period (say 4-6 months). How would you respond to people who argue that you cannot possibly know enough about a person after that period of time to know whether you want to spend "every day of the rest of your life with them," to use Bill's words?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

First of all, I would say I highly doubt that after 4-6 months of a relationship, there is an infinitesimally small chance you know them as well as you think. My question is this. How long have you known her? Friendship is honestly what I would regard as the most important part of my marriage.

[wxman_matt]

Bill, I assume you meant that after 4-6 months you believe the chance of knowing someone as well as you think you do is infintesimally small. I suppose that depends on several variables and can be different for each relationship. But, I guess I often find myself asking, "is finding someone to marry about finding someone who shares many of the same personality traits, characteristics, passions, etc?" or "is it finding someone who passionately seeks the Lord and with whom I can see myself solving all of the 'what ifs' that life throws at us?" I think the former question requires a much longer dating period than the latter question, and Biblically, I don't really see any precedent for using the first question over the second as guidance in our seeking of a spouse. Thoughts?

[Jenacen]

My girlfriend and I decided that we just want to take our time, that our primary interest is in getting to know each other, so we're not set on a minimum, though it will be about three years before we can ever get married because of college concerns. Right now, we just want to grow together and work hard at a lasting relationship. We both agree, we have plenty of time; I'm 20, she's 19.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by wxman_matt

Bill, I assume you meant that after 4-6 months you believe the chance of knowing someone as well as you think you do is infintesimally small. I suppose that depends on several variables and can be different for each relationship. But, I guess I often find myself asking, "is finding someone to marry about finding someone who shares many of the same personality traits, characteristics, passions, etc?" or "is it finding someone who passionately seeks the Lord and with whom I can see myself solving all of the 'what ifs' that life throws at us?" I think the former question requires a much longer dating period than the latter question, and Biblically, I don't really see any precedent for using the first question over the second as guidance in our seeking of a spouse. Thoughts?

You know it has to be more than this though; by your logic, any two random Christians of the opposite sex would be fit for marriage. After all, they'd both passionately seek the Lord, and as such could probably help each other with solving life's problems. But that's ridiculous -- Christianity does not mandate that all believers have identical and compatible personalities, and some would just not be fit to be a couple. There's a reason Christians don't just pick and choose from their singles groups when they're looking for a spouse.

My girlfriend and I decided that we just want to take our time, that our primary interest is in getting to know each other, so we're not set on a minimum, though it will be about three years before we can ever get married because of college concerns. Right now, we just want to grow together and work hard at a lasting relationship. We both agree, we have plenty of time; I'm 20, she's 19.

I'm in the same boat, and this is good advice.

[ApparentlyNothing]

Whenever you get in a relationship with someone, you inevitably project your own ideals of how the person is whether or not they are actually that way. It takes some time before those ideals come crashing down and a real relationship can begin. How long that time is is incredibly variable. You might know the person as a friend well already, and so a shorter relationship might work. On the other hand, some people don't lose those ideals until well into marriage.

From personal experience, my last girlfriend and I were together for about 4-5 months. If I had proposed to her, it would have been the biggest mistake of my life (besides the fact that she definitely would have said no). It was after we broke up that a lot of my ideals about her fell apart and I realized how wrong we were for each other. Imagine had I not realized this until after we were engaged, or even worse, after we were married.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by wxman_matt

Bill, I assume you meant that after 4-6 months you believe the chance of knowing someone as well as you think you do is infintesimally small. I suppose that depends on several variables and can be different for each relationship. But, I guess I often find myself asking, "is finding someone to marry about finding someone who shares many of the same personality traits, characteristics, passions, etc?" or "is it finding someone who passionately seeks the Lord and with whom I can see myself solving all of the 'what ifs' that life throws at us?" I think the former question requires a much longer dating period than the latter question, and Biblically, I don't really see any precedent for using the first question over the second as guidance in our seeking of a spouse. Thoughts?

As a married guy, the latter is actually much harder. In the average 4-6 month period, you get a little vignette of a life. You could very easily catch a transient phase in someones life and mistake it for the master course in their life.

Case in point: A girl I know who was 19 was on fire for God it would have seemed. She went on missions trips, etc. However, after a couple years of this she fell away. She is now a highly successful porn star. I mention this because I was her best friend for many years, though we have not spoken in a few years since she fell away and made it clear that aspect of her life was over.

However, as her best friend, I saw things and warning signs that her boyfriend for about 8 months missed. They got married and it lasted a few years. Now I knew her since we were both 6 and I warned him about a few things and patterns I saw. Sadly, I was right and he was wrong, though I tried and tried to lend him any support. (Our backgrounds, IQ's, personalities, and temperaments were near identical to a scary degree) I don't like to admit that... but its sadly true. We are basically one choice apart. And sometimes I wonder if its one choice or one allergy, or merely our speed of driving?

In short, if you do not have the former, you cannot know more than an idealization of the latter. So in short, you are taking a piece of knowing someone and knowing it well, which you can really only know by a deep and at least fairly long-term friendship.

SO in short, without a good basis in knowing the character, the personality, the traits, the quirks, etc. You cannot know that you two will stand together in the Lord through all the what ifs life throws at you?

How does she handle it when someone she loves dies for example? How does she handle it when she questions her faith? (Everyone of us does) How long have they passionately sought the Lord? Is this a sustainable fire or a path to burn out? Those are all valid questions you better know the answer to, and which you can't know without time and experience.

[wxman_matt]

Bill, I think you raise good and valid points. I think that's one reason that it's important not to live relationships in a vacuum like today's society often does. I think that it's true that you often get a small vignette of life, although it will, I think often times be indicative of who the person is (I mean, how do you determine how long it takes before you're not seeing just a vignette, but instead the "real" person). Because you certainly cannot know a person in the limited amount of time spent dating, I think it's integral to rely on the guidance of others who know/have known both people in the relationship for extended periods of time.

One reason that I advocate (in general) a shorter dating period is because I think the dangers of a long dating period far outweigh the potential benefits (mainly knowing the person better, determining if they're compatible). I think it's almost impossible (or at least the temptation increases to a level beyond what many, dare I say most, Christians to withstand, at least evidenced by statistics) to withstand the physical temptation that becomes ever more present as a relationship goes on. In addition, it seems that it becomes increasingly difficult to prevent love from awakening before it's proper time (Song of Solomon 2:7) and to keep from defrauding brother/sisters physically and emotionally (1 Thes. 4:1-8). Anyway, just some more quick thoughts before I hit the sack. I appreciate the dialouge, Bill. It's always good to get wisdom and insight from people who have been there and done that.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by wxman_matt

Bill, I think you raise good and valid points. I think that's one reason that it's important not to live relationships in a vacuum like today's society often does. I think that it's true that you often get a small vignette of life, although it will, I think often times be indicative of who the person is (I mean, how do you determine how long it takes before you're not seeing just a vignette, but instead the "real" person). Because you certainly cannot know a person in the limited amount of time spent dating, I think it's integral to rely on the guidance of others who know/have known both people in the relationship for extended periods of time.

My personal guess would be at least a year. Things change throughout the year. Also, I would make absolutely certain I had seen them interacting in several spheres of influence significantly. One of the biggest factors I have seen in marriage meltdown at a Christian university was people knew the school version of a person. Thats all they knew, but when real pressures of life came they had no clue who they had just married.

One reason that I advocate (in general) a shorter dating period is because I think the dangers of a long dating period far outweigh the potential benefits (mainly knowing the person better, determining if they're compatible). I think it's almost impossible (or at least the temptation increases to a level beyond what many, dare I say most, Christians to withstand, at least evidenced by statistics) to withstand the physical temptation that becomes ever more present as a relationship goes on.

Thats really bunk. My wife and I dated for 4+ years and we were virgins when we got married. People do take the easy way out, but thats insanity to justify a short dating period. A lack of character and or strength does not justify jumping into marriage prematurely.

In addition, it seems that it becomes increasingly difficult to prevent love from awakening before it's proper time (Song of Solomon 2:7) and to keep from defrauding brother/sisters physically and emotionally (1 Thes. 4:1-8). Anyway, just some more quick thoughts before I hit the sack. I appreciate the dialouge, Bill. It's always good to get wisdom and insight from people who have been there and done that.

Its no harder now than it ever was. If you look at song of Solomon, you will see as much desire as we could muster. There is a time when marriage should take place and I have no doubt my wife and I dated a bit too long. However, erring on the side of actually knowing the person is better than letting sexual temptation take the reins. 50 years can be a long sentence if guided by hormones.