[OneHope]

"The world would be better off without Christianity" is something I've been hearing more and more of lately. I think it would be beneficial if we compiled a list of all the good Christianity has done in the world. I'm talking about stuff that could be used as a rebuttal to the above statement so though we as Christians believe that evangelism is good, most of the world doesn't see it that way. So, to get started:


WorldVision, Christian Children's Fund, Operation Christmas Child

Martin Luther King Jr. and the American Civil Rights movement

Tommy Douglas and socialized health care

[JoelWildtree]

One assertion made in the statement "the world would be better off without Christianity" is that the good things done in the name of God can actually be done by anyone, regardless of religion, for the sake of humanity. We can do good things because God tells us, and because it's what Jesus would do ... or we can do them because we recognize the need, we empathize with other's pain and suffering, and realize that if we were in such a needy situation we would wish for such reciprocation. That latter of course does not require a God to direct us, or any religious beliefs whatsoever. Why can't we just recognize what good things people have done regardless of why they did it, and realize we need to be doing more of those things. For people without religion, they actually do good things out of their own human interest.

[JoelWildtree]

Another point I should make is that the statement is usually more of a blanket statement which stretches out to all religions, all dogmatic belief systems, all mystical/supernatural/irrational beliefs that may hinder the advancement of human society, especially in science & medicine. The reason you hear a specific "attack" on Christianity is because it's the foremost force in the world working directly against rationality.

[Gsus_Rawks]

Originally Posted by OneHope

"The world would be better off without Christianity" is something I've been hearing more and more of lately. I think it would be beneficial if we compiled a list of all the good Christianity has done in the world. I'm talking about stuff that could be used as a rebuttal to the above statement so though we as Christians believe that evangelism is good, most of the world doesn't see it that way. So, to get started:


WorldVision, Christian Children's Fund, Operation Christmas Child

Martin Luther King Jr. and the American Civil Rights movement

Tommy Douglas and socialized health care

I agree a bit; religious zeal has caused terrible tragedy in the world, but I think that this is true with any strong belief, be in patriotism, government, religious zeal or extreme arrogance. When Christianity is used as a crutch or an empty religion apart from Christ (as it has been seen historically so often) Christianity can be a terrible thing.
On the other hand, the world - and certainly Western Civilization - would surely be a different (would it be to bold to say "worse"?) place if it were not for what Christians had done, both wrongfully and righteously.

[bobthecockroach]

Well I know an agnostic who considers the Catholic church the saviors of civilization because they kept literacy and philosophy and stuff alive through the dark ages.

[Insane Drummer]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

Well I know an agnostic who considers the Catholic church the saviors of civilization because they kept literacy and philosophy and stuff alive through the dark ages.

Literacy perhaps. Philosophy, the Muslims really kept that one alive until the Catholics got it back via Averroes.

[RK_lover]

There's a really good book (can't remember the author) entitled "What if Jesus had Never Been Born?". It explains a lot of things.

[+SEAL+]

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

Literacy perhaps. Philosophy, the Muslims really kept that one alive until the Catholics got it back via Averroes.

Definitely literacy. Monasteries were like little islands in the sea of blood and warfare that filled the Dark Ages.

[ICTHUS]

There is an ongoing discussion in the editorial section of my school's newspaper about this issue.

Derek Madson's original column

Another student replies to him (For some reason this girl's name is familiar to me, but it doesn't matter)

And he replies to her

Now, I'm trying to tackle what he says head-on, but I'm having difficulty: he brings up the example of Oskar Schindler and Nazism - saying that Schindler's Nazism isn't what prompted him to save the lives of 1100 Jews, therefore, Nazism should not get the credit. And similarly, Christianity should not get the credit for its followers doing good things. Is he right, or is there something wrong with this?

[slap_j]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

Is he right, or is there something wrong with this?

Well, it seems as if his point of view places himself as the arbiter of what morality is or isn't. It seems to be in direct contradiction to scripture when he says, "Clearly the good deeds described by Perry originate from a deeper well of humanity."

Whereas in Isaiah we read:

I am the LORD and there is no other,
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.

EDIT

I'd also add that his comparison to Nazism isn't really analogous. How could Nazism get the credit for what Schindler did when his actions were in stark contrast to Nazi ideology? Whereas the teachings of Christ are to help the sick and poor, to turn the other cheek, to avoid hypocrisy.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

Well I know an agnostic who considers the Catholic church the saviors of civilization because they kept literacy and philosophy and stuff alive through the dark ages.

He's somewhat wrong. Many of the great Greek philosophers and historians who have become a cornerstone of Western philosophy (as revitalized during the Renaissance) were preserved by the Muslim societies of the Middle East during the European "Dark Ages." The Roman Catholic Church preserved much, but it wasn't available to the public and they stood in the face of advancing science (in many ways, Europe and the Middle East have flip-flopped social directions over the past couple of centuries).

The Roman Catholic Church may have provided a political framework to keep Europe intact, however.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

Literacy perhaps. Philosophy, the Muslims really kept that one alive until the Catholics got it back via Averroes.

Bing bing, though literacy for the average man was never really a goal of the Catholic Church - though they didn't fight against it, per se. That whole "church services in Latin while ignoring the vernacular" was not really that admirable, however. Also, giving papal blessing to Aristotle's science and occasionally forcefully standing against new discoveries - odd.

[Becky]

this is a valuable discussion. It has me wondering though. Perhaps people say things like this for a reason that we can't squelsh by giving them a list of the great accomplishments of Christianity. Instead of responding with a retort, perhaps we can learn to listen to their reasons and take steps towards healing by appologizing for the wrong things people have done in Jesus' name.

I know that would not solve everything. Some people are against Christians, but for others the real issue is not Christians, but Christ himself. As Jesus said, they hate us because they hate Him. However, for those who hate Christ, telling them how good christians have been for society wont help.

It is easy to get so wrapped up in a conflict that we forget to deal with where the conflict is comming from. We fight till our faces are blue, but it makes no difference because we are not dealing with the real issue.

[soup]

I have to disagree with the opening post including Tommy Douglas. He created an entire generation that looks to the government for their needs. Who needs God?

[Steve353]

I think arguing with somebody about the validity of your faith is a pointless endeavor. If you were the last believer in the world would it change your faith? Just rest in your place in the Body of Christ and do the work the Lord has you do and don't sweat what those who prefer the darkness think. Spend more of your time supporting and encouraging the Body and when the world sees our love that is what will draw them.