[rock_show_host]

I know there are a few threads on Apologetix already, but they're all old and I didn't know if I should resurrect them. If I was wrong, feel free to merge.

I've just gotten around to listening to Apologetix for the first time after hearing so much about them, and...I genuinely don't understand the fuss. At all. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that this band represents most of what I have a problem with in Christian music. And I absolutely love music debates, so I wanted to post my thoughts and see if I could get some interesting rebuttals.

My problem with Apologetix is that I don't feel like they have a clear intention with their music, and given the stuff they're doing I especially feel like they need one. In other words, a Christian band that takes the music, melodies, and rhyme schemes for a secular song and gives it religious lyrics can really only be doing it for one of two feasible reasons: 1) parody (along the lines of Weird Al), or 2) to minister/evangelize by giving people familiar tunes and replacing the "filthy" lyrics with God-centered ones.

Frankly, the band really frustrates me because I feel like they don't really do a good job of either of these. They call themselves a parody band, and some people have compared them to Weird Al; the problem is that I don't feel like the songs are clever enough to stand alone as parody songs. The only really funny thing about them is the inherent fact that they're familiar tunes rewritten -- the lyrics themselves aren't especially clever, funny, or even well-written at all. To put them in the same category as Weird Al, whose parodies are hilarious because the lyrics are insanely clever and wittily written, is ridiculous.

To the band's credit, it doesn't sound to me like they want their songs to be jokes; they don't make an effort to make the lyrics themselves witty or funny because it sounds like they're actually trying to put a serious message to them. The lyrics themselves aren't funny because they're meant to be serious and substantive. But I don't feel like this works either. For one thing, the familiarity of the songs they cover (and at times, the musical blasphemy of the fact that the songs are being covered at all) only really serves as a distraction from the lyrics. And then there's the fact that the lyrics are, frankly, just badly written, full of nothing but cliche, run-of-the-mill praise song lyrics made even cheesier by the fact that they're forced to fit around the rhyme schemes of the existing songs. A non-Christian listening to their music will most likely not be intrigued by the new message, merely annoyed that the original lyrics have been replaced with far inferior ones that on top of that aren't even entertaining as parodies.

In short, I sometimes feel like the band uses the "parody" label as an excuse. If they openly advertised the fact that they copy secular songs with the sole intent of "Christianizing" their lyrics, I have a hard time believing that they could get away with it; yet, if they're copying music from other artists for the purpose of parody, it's seen as acceptable, even though it doesn't seem like their songs are really intended to be true parodies.

Sorry, that turned out to be a lot longer than I'd expected, but I'd really like to hear some counter-arguments (although consensus is welcome too). And when I say I want to hear interesting rebuttals, PLEASE give me more of an argument than "I think it's wonderful that they're musicians using their talents for God's ministry and they deserve your respect." I realize that they're talented and think it's great that they want to be involved in ministry. I just take issue with their methods and therefore don't think their ministry is at all effective. And being an advocate of innovation in the Christian music industry, I think they cheapen much of what should be good about Christian music and are a giant step backwards for the entire industry.

[Ax]

I think that they are a lampoon of Christian music and validate the secular world's argument that Christian rock is only a mockery of secular rock. (I don't hold this belief, but Apologetix certainly didn't help me come to that conclusion).

They are exactly what CCM should not be, in that they are a direct rip off of secular music. I think they were over-hyped (when they had some hype) and that they should have never happened.

I'm not against parody music, just the kind where you take secular music and try and make it Christian.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by AXguitar

I'm not against parody music, just the kind where you take secular music and try and make it Christian.

Exactly -- I'd be open to their stuff if it were a legit parody, but it's not; just a secular group's music with Christianized lyrics that are neither clever nor intelligent.

[ieatdirt]

Oh boy! A thread for the sole purpose of arguing!

[Ax]

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

Exactly -- I'd be open to their stuff if it were a legit parody, but it's not; just a secular group's music with Christianized lyrics that are neither clever nor intelligent.

I think the whole notion that secular music needs to be made Christian is abominable.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by AXguitar

I think the whole notion that secular music needs to be made Christian is abominable.

Oh, believe me, I agree. I just meant that songs being copied for the purpose of quality parody, Christian or secular, is okay with me. The idea that good secular music needs to have its "filthy" lyrics "purified" with Christian content is not only stupid, it's insanely disrespectful. An artist's work is the property of the artist, and that doesn't just get nullified as soon as Christians get offended by the art.

It'd be like painting over the Mona Lisa to draw a cross around her neck and a fish tattoo on her cheek.

[Ax]

I'm honestly tired of the mindset that some people think that all secular music is bad.

[rock_show_host]

I think virtually everyone who honestly claims to have that mindset is guilty of about a million double standards.

And bands like Apologetix, which seem to encourage the idea that it's only okay to listen to a piece of secular music after it's been taken over and watered down by a Christian group, make the problem so much worse. I've talked to so many people who love Apologetix because now they can enjoy the good music of a secular band without a) feeling "less holy" for listening to a non-Christian song, or b) needing to give the original artist any kind of credit or admiration. As someone who writes a lot of original music, I just think it's wrong.

[AudioAUnderdog]

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

Oh, believe me, I agree. I just meant that songs being copied for the purpose of quality parody, Christian or secular, is okay with me. The idea that good secular music needs to have its "filthy" lyrics "purified" with Christian content is not only stupid, it's insanely disrespectful. An artist's work is the property of the artist, and that doesn't just get nullified as soon as Christians get offended by the art.

It'd be like painting over the Mona Lisa to draw a cross around her neck and a fish tattoo on her cheek.

First let me say that I don't think all secular music is bad, I listen to quite a bit of classic rock. I just don't like newer stuff from a musical standpoint.

I think it's great that they "purify" secular lyrics of songs that I like, but I'm not allowed to listen to. In fact, even if I was allowed to listen to songs with cursing I wouldn't because the lyrics get stuck in your head and I don't want that stuff swimming around in my head all day. Actually, some Apologetix lyrics are quite funny, listen to "All the Stalls Stink" and "Story of a Squirrel". It makes me laugh when I hear the real songs because they lyrics are so close. In fact, when I try singing stairway to heaven it's a stange Led Zepplin/Apologetix fusion.
And I don't think that cleaning up lyrics is at all disrespectful when the original content can be offending to people. The artist may have a right to put dirty words in their songs, but I don't think they realize how that can turn people like me off. I really think they shouldn't. I mean, what's the point of ruining a perfectly great song by putting one stinkin' cuss word in it? There are songs I love and can't listen to because of that! I drives me crazy, but I'm glad Apologetix is there so I can still listen to good music without the crap.

Speaking of Mona Lisa...

[Oh!Gravity]

Originally Posted by AudioAUnderdog

Speaking of Mona Lisa...

That made my day...

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by AudioAUnderdog

And I don't think that cleaning up lyrics is at all disrespectful when the original content can be offending to people. The artist may have a right to put dirty words in their songs, but I don't think they realize how that can turn people like me off. I really think they shouldn't. I mean, what's the point of ruining a perfectly great song by putting one stinkin' cuss word in it? There are songs I love and can't listen to because of that! I drives me crazy, but I'm glad Apologetix is there so I can still listen to good music without the crap.

I looked up Story of a Squirrel and honestly didn't think it was funny; just a lot of really obvious and lame Biblical jokes, and then a few extremely forced Christian messages. That's the way I feel about almost all the songs of theirs I've heard.

And no, the fact that an artist's art offends some people does NOT make it any less disrespectful for someone else to just tamper with it. You're personally offended by profanity in music (and in general, I assume); I'm not, therefore I'm perfectly comfortable listening to songs you'd consider offensive. So although a cuss word may ruin a song for you, its placement and context may actually enhance the song for me. Like you said, you really think bands shouldn't write songs that could turn people off, but others don't. It's an opinion, not an objective standard.

Put it this way: a really beautiful, well-written and honest Christian song could just as easily offend a lot of people who aren't Christian. Wouldn't it still be disrespectful for those people to take the melody to that song and rewrite it to fit their moral standards?

[AudioAUnderdog]

Originally Posted by rock_show_host

I looked up Story of a Squirrel and honestly didn't think it was funny; just a lot of really obvious and lame Biblical jokes, and then a few extremely forced Christian messages. That's the way I feel about almost all the songs of theirs I've heard.

So you think that biblical messages are lame?

And no, the fact that an artist's art offends some people does NOT make it any less disrespectful for someone else to just tamper with it. You're personally offended by profanity in music (and in general, I assume); I'm not, therefore I'm perfectly comfortable listening to songs you'd consider offensive. So although a cuss word may ruin a song for you, its placement and context may actually enhance the song for me. Like you said, you really think bands shouldn't write songs that could turn people off, but others don't. It's an opinion, not an objective standard.

I'm not really offended by it, I think the word offended sounds like some lame emo word. I'm really just saddened by it. I never the that the reason people shouldn't cuss is because it offends some people. If you really want to delve into it I think people shouldn't cuss because it offends God. But that's really the band's problem, isn't it? If it were just about people I could care less. Messages always turn people off no matter what they are, my point was that bands are losing a number of fans who's parents won't let them listen to their music. Plus kids who don't want to because of unnecessary cuss word. Milder words like hell and crap I have no problem with, if they're used in context with the song and not just thrown in for coolness factor. It's stuff like the F word and immorality is what makes me want to throw up. I'm sorry, but songs get stuck in my head to easy, and that's not something I want to think about.

Put it this way: a really beautiful, well-written and honest Christian song could just as easily offend a lot of people who aren't Christian. Wouldn't it still be disrespectful for those people to take the melody to that song and rewrite it to fit their moral standards?

Not really, can't a band refuse to let someone make a parody of their song?
And it's just a song. The lyrics are what makes it Christian or not, the music doesn't matter. If someone turns "Awesome God" into a song about drugs, that doesn't really disrespect the original lyrics, it's just a song.
And who cares if Christians offend people? That's just what we do, if we want to or not.

[rock_show_host]

So you think that biblical messages are lame?

No, I think songs that cheapen Biblical messages with bad jokes and poor writing are lame.

I'll write a full reply later, I'm actually still at work and leaving in a few minutes.

[TunerSteve]

I don't have a problem with Apologetix at all. They feel they are called to provide the musical ministry that they have embraced, and are fulfilling God's calling on their lives. I've never heard, or read where the members of Apologetix say they are offended, therefore changed the lyrics to the songs they record. There are plenty of artists that I don't like enough to purchase their music, but I still support thier efforts to spread the Word in whatever way they feel called.

I once read (I think in a book by Phillip Yancey) about a situation where some Christian men were gathered discussing views on ministry, and one complained vigorously about the guy that you would see on TV during sporting events in a rainbow afro wig, holding a sign that said "John 3:16". It irritated him, and said how guys like him, are giving Christians a bad image, and make them look fanatical. Then one of his friends expressed how he turned to Christ while watching a football game one afternoon. He was depressed, losing all hope, and seeing that guy on TV one day, he picked up a Bible and eventually gave his life to Christ....one reason was a guy, willing to look 'fanatical' in the eyes of "the world" following God's calling on his life.

They say impersonation is the sincerest form of flattery, and the music's original writer still gets credit, (and money) for his efforts, so I see no losers in this equation.

Steve

[Ax]

Originally Posted by AudioAUnderdog

Not really, can't a band refuse to let someone make a parody of their song?

no, in fact, apologetix has the supreme court ruling from the coolio/weird al case posted on their website as kind of an 'in your face' to any band they ripped off.

And it's just a song. The lyrics are what makes it Christian or not, the music doesn't matter. If someone turns "Awesome God" into a song about drugs, that doesn't really disrespect the original lyrics, it's just a song.
And who cares if Christians offend people? That's just what we do, if we want to or not.

A song is a way for an artist to express themselves. If somebody took a song I wrote and ruined it in the way they did... I'd be super pissed.