[cngp90]

Question: Do all babies go to heaven when they die?

and

If yes, how old do you have to be before you will go to hell when you die if you don't make Christ Lord and Savior?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Simple answer. Scripture does not say. Thats the honest answer. anything anyone tells you definitively otherwise will be largely based on flimsy theological constructs.

The story with David and Bathsheba's son points toward an infants going to heaven position and is the primary prooftext.

The doctrine of original sin is the primary prooftext for their hellboundness especially in the traducionist position.

Id rather believe the former as I lost the second unborn child in one year today. I honestly wish there was better comfort out there, but ultimately, its the mercy of God alone we have to look to here.

If you are looking for an age of accountability though... scripture seems to make no such doctrine, so any such thing will be absolutely B.S.'d.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Id rather believe the former as I lost the second unborn child in one year today.

that must be incredibly painful for you, I'll be praying for you and your wife.

[Nomes]

Oh Bill, I'm so sorry for your loss

[bobthecockroach]

I was going to say something stupid and funny, but I guess now is not the right time. Bill, I will be praying for you and your wife.

My operating belief is that babies go to Heaven, but theologically speaking, I have no particular proof of that.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I mentioned that because its easy for armchair theologians to say whatever in a cavalier attitude.

In this case, I can't take that kind of stuff, but I dare say I have read a vast amount of material on the subject and frankly without getting into really odd and I would dare say the weakest portions of covenant theology, (the idea that a child is born part of a covenant community and is somehow promised to be part of that community through infant baptism, till proven otherwise seems like a really poorly constructed doctrine to me) there really are no more answers than what I posted.

But this is an incredibly touchy subject. I dare say I would wager that it affects a ton of us. I just wish I hadn't seen it today. God knows my mind has wandered here enough today.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by cngp90

Question: Do all babies go to heaven when they die?

and

If yes, how old do you have to be before you will go to hell when you die if you don't make Christ Lord and Savior?

I don't know. Like BSPE said, the Bible is rather unclear on the matter. We just have to trust in God's providence.

[katmetal]

Bill, my heart goes out to you; you will be in my prayers...May God give you and your wife the strength & comfort along this difficult path...

True, the Bible does not give a 100% definitive answer, it is one of those things where you have to "read between the lines". As a 100% black & white, no gray area person, I hate that. But there is compelling evidence that they will be in Heaven. If I were to make a conjecture here, I would say that I couldn't see a Holy God doing otherwise...

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org...o/infantsa.htm

I find comfort in the scriptures outlined in the green area...

[JerRocks2day]

Id rather believe the former as I lost the second unborn child in one year today. I honestly wish there was better comfort out there, but ultimately, its the mercy of God alone we have to look to here.

I know how you feel, Bill. My Youth Pastor and his wife lost their 2nd baby last year, but they got over it. They still have a son who is already two-years-old.

I was going to remind you of the unfinished question back at the "50 Influential Christian Leaders of 2007" thread, regarding Phil Vischer and Joel Osteen, but now's not the time. I'll pray for you to.

[goodbyebluesky8]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I mentioned that because its easy for armchair theologians to say whatever in a cavalier attitude.

In this case, I can't take that kind of stuff, but I dare say I have read a vast amount of material on the subject and frankly without getting into really odd and I would dare say the weakest portions of covenant theology, (the idea that a child is born part of a covenant community and is somehow promised to be part of that community through infant baptism, till proven otherwise seems like a really poorly constructed doctrine to me) there really are no more answers than what I posted.

But this is an incredibly touchy subject. I dare say I would wager that it affects a ton of us. I just wish I hadn't seen it today. God knows my mind has wandered here enough today.

Thats not a very accurate description of covenant theology. A child with Christian parents abiding in the faith is born "into the covenant", much as Isrealites were born into a covenant. Their faith is ultimately what justifies them though, not that they receive the promise "until proven otherwise" like you said.

Those who believe in covenant theology baptize their infant children for much different reasons than Catholics. During the Reformation the anabaptists fought against infant baptism in light of the departure of the Roman Catholic Church..... but many Reformed theologians like Calvin and Zwigli argued in support of infant baptism but as a covenental symbol.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by katmetal

True, the Bible does not give a 100% definitive answer, it is one of those things where you have to "read between the lines". As a 100% black & white, no gray area person, I hate that. But there is compelling evidence that they will be in Heaven. If I were to make a conjecture here, I would say that I couldn't see a Holy God doing otherwise...

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org...o/infantsa.htm

I find comfort in the scriptures outlined in the green area...

This is the kind of 'biblical teaching' that REALLY bugs me. The writer goes out of his/her way to bash infant baptism and any other aspect that they find 'unscriptural' and then provide a really weak argument for infant salvation.
Granted, I tend to believe in infant salvation but please don't try to throw out any 'proof texts' for it. My view is simply a conviction that I have and I have no scriptural backing for it. It seems in line with God's character, but would I die for this view? Nope.

So, short answer: There's really no way for us to know. The bible doesn't expressly state it and at best one can paste together a weak argument taken out of context from a variety of different places throughout Scripture.
-shane

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky8

Thats not a very accurate description of covenant theology. A child with Christian parents abiding in the faith is born "into the covenant", much as Isrealites were born into a covenant. Their faith is ultimately what justifies them though, not that they receive the promise "until proven otherwise" like you said.

Those who believe in covenant theology baptize their infant children for much different reasons than Catholics. During the Reformation the anabaptists fought against infant baptism in light of the departure of the Roman Catholic Church..... but many Reformed theologians like Calvin and Zwigli argued in support of infant baptism but as a covenental symbol.

No scripture supports that view. You can argue covenant continuity, however, the fact remains that the old testament covenant community was not salvific, so the point is moot even if you assume continuity in the most absolute sense.

BTW, the terminology used was directly lifted from covenant theologians. Including the, "until proven otherwise."

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky8

Thats not a very accurate description of covenant theology. A child with Christian parents abiding in the faith is born "into the covenant", much as Isrealites were born into a covenant. Their faith is ultimately what justifies them though, not that they receive the promise "until proven otherwise" like you said.

I would like you to show me in the bible where it says this.

Yeah there really is no scripture that gives us an age of accountability but i think it may vary.(just a thought)I mean can a mental challenged child (like in a vegative state) really understand it enough to get saved?And if they cant do they go to heaven or hell?

[Role Modlin]

Originally Posted by JerRocks2day

I know how you feel, Bill. My Youth Pastor and his wife lost their 2nd baby last year, but they got over it. They still have a son who is already two-years-old.

I dare say that they "got over it."

[JerRocks2day]

I dare say that they "got over it."

You're right. They're still passionate for the lord and are still a happy family.