[peter600]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

let me be a little bitter and point out that I have succesfully drawn my knife quite a few time and am practiced at it than most should ever be. I have also used knives a bit more and survived a few knife fights. And during a mugging I have stabbed someone as I was losing consciousness. My knife has gotten me out of quite a few jams.

I used to could draw in around .4 seconds. I am sure its much slower now, as I no longer practice daily.

cool yeah it wasn't from the most reliable source cause i just scanned it when i was looking for something (forget what now) and was just curious. i think the guy expected whenever you get attacked its gonna be from behind and all of a sudden they are going to be on top of you.. .4 thats amazing..

[Sean]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

To be honest though, brutality is not the easiest, safest, or most effective way.

Not my point at all. My point is, its better to avoid both, while protecting your family. Brutality is probably not the easiest or most effective way. Rest assured, I would defend my family at any cost, but rather than study an art which will most likely give you one shot to incapacitate, its better to have a solid way to do a good takedown.

But the easiest and safest way there would be to first disarm the attacker by an attack to take the knife. You could either kick his knife hand, perform a strike which pops his wrist out of socket or a few other maneuvers.

My point is this, brutality harms 2. It harms you and your enemy, and to be honest, the more brutal fights I have been in are the ones where I sustained permanent injuries. I strongly suggest a highly efficient art, rather than a brutal one. Its easy to mistake one for the other.

I am a pragmatic fighter, and I always carry a Kershaw AO these days.

I see what you're saying. I'll agree. I think I overstated myself early on, and was more defending my intended thought than what I actually wrote.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by irtrogdor

i have heard that most martial arts are bogus and serve no real purpose in a real fight, specifically street fights. what do you people who practice the arts think? would you feel confident (unarmed) against a dude with a knife in a dark alley?

Originally Posted by Sean

With that stated, many martial arts school's invalidate themselves and water themselves down by becoming belt factories.

I went to a Tae Kwon do tournament a year ago, and there were literally like 7 year old black belts running around. I went to go to see a family, and almost all of them are about to get their black belts and they've been going less than 2 years.

I went back to that same tournament this afternoon. It was fun, but rather painful at the same time. During the black belt tournament, one of the black belts was like a 10 year old boy (I'm guessing at his age). First he entered the forms competition, and looked extremely sloppy and appeared to forget the end of the routine. So he didn't leave a particularly good first impression.

Then during the sparring contest he was matched with someone much larger than him (he was the smallest person there by far). His opponent was a mid-teen boy who was skinny and not much bigger than the 16 year old girl in the tournament. So he was facing someone much bigger, but it wasn't like it was a gigantic size different. During the fight he kept backing away from his opponent to the point that the refs told him to stop. When he finally did engage, he collided shins with his opponent and hurt his foot. At that point he started crying and didn't stop for 10 minutes.

I don't mean to pick on a kid, but it really did come off like a case where years of martial arts training were somewhat bogus. It would have been one thing if only had trouble sparring. That was somewhat understandable. However, he couldn't even do his forms correctly.

What did his black belt stand for? He couldn't do forms well or spare with someone bigger than himself. As best I could tell his belt simply meant he'd been going to the school for X amount of time and his parents had paid X amount of money.


On a different note....

I've been interested in taking martial arts for the majority of my life, but I only managed to actual take classes, in Tukong Moosul...Korean Special Forces martial art, for a short period of time 5 or 6 years ago. I'm hoping to start taking classes again whenever graduate from college in May.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide what I want to take. I'd like something where the sparring is much more intense than what they were doing at the tournament I attended. The rules of the tournament almost seemed designed to remove most techniques and make it completely unlike a real fight. There were no hits to the back or legs and no punches to the head. So people were being trained to throw kicks and punches and kicks to the most guarded part of the body. Its of course good for ones instincts, but it seems like it would be particularly bad for training someone for reality. I'm sure many of the rules were simply because its more of a family tournament (it was rather cute to watch a 6 year old girl in pink pads sparring with a 5 year old boy).

I'm looking for a martial art with practical techniques and more intense sparring. Any suggestions?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Sean

I went back to that same tournament this afternoon. It was fun, but rather painful at the same time. During the black belt tournament, one of the black belts was like a 10 year old boy (I'm guessing at his age). First he entered the forms competition, and looked extremely sloppy and appeared to forget the end of the routine. So he didn't leave a particularly good first impression.

Then during the sparring contest he was matched with someone much larger than him (he was the smallest person there by far). His opponent was a mid-teen boy who was skinny and not much bigger than the 16 year old girl in the tournament. So he was facing someone much bigger, but it wasn't like it was a gigantic size different. During the fight he kept backing away from his opponent to the point that the refs told him to stop. When he finally did engage, he collided shins with his opponent and hurt his foot. At that point he started crying and didn't stop for 10 minutes.

I don't mean to pick on a kid, but it really did come off like a case where years of martial arts training were somewhat bogus. It would have been one thing if only had trouble sparring. That was somewhat understandable. However, he couldn't even do his forms correctly.

What did his black belt stand for? He couldn't do forms well or spare with someone bigger than himself. As best I could tell his belt simply meant he'd been going to the school for X amount of time and his parents had paid X amount of money.


On a different note....

I've been interested in taking martial arts for the majority of my life, but I only managed to actual take classes, in Tukong Moosul...Korean Special Forces martial art, for a short period of time 5 or 6 years ago. I'm hoping to start taking classes again whenever graduate from college in May.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide what I want to take. I'd like something where the sparring is much more intense than what they were doing at the tournament I attended. The rules of the tournament almost seemed designed to remove most techniques and make it completely unlike a real fight. There were no hits to the back or legs and no punches to the head. So people were being trained to throw kicks and punches and kicks to the most guarded part of the body. Its of course good for ones instincts, but it seems like it would be particularly bad for training someone for reality. I'm sure many of the rules were simply because its more of a family tournament (it was rather cute to watch a 6 year old girl in pink pads sparring with a 5 year old boy).

I'm looking for a martial art with practical techniques and more intense sparring. Any suggestions?

Hapkido, American Kenpo Karate, would be my first 2 suggestions.

I like the rules some schools have which bar black belts from being given to those under the age of 18.

There do need to be some rules for tournaments. For example, allowing elbow strikes is just plain irresponsible.

[Big_al]

I'm thinking of possibly getting some MMA training.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Hapkido

One of my friends made that same suggestion. He said to avoid Tae Kwon Do and take Hapkido instead.

American Kenpo Karate

I've been interested in American Kenpo since I saw The Perfect Weapon, and did some research on Jeff Speakman. Supposedly its the only film to depict American Kenpo which has a wide release.

I like the rules some schools have which bar black belts from being given to those under the age of 18.

Yeah at this school they not allow black belts at extremely young age, you can be an instructor at age 16....and they happen to have one extremely hyper-teenage girl third degree black belt instructor who was jumping up and
down while singing for the majority of the tournament.

There do need to be some rules for tournaments. For example, allowing elbow strikes is just plain irresponsible.

Yeah. I don't know what the best balance of safety and practicality would be, but this just seemed absurd. People with greater skill were losing because their arms weren't as long or because they were having to attempt high kicks to try and win points. Every point the judges seemed to disagree on who made contact first or IF they made contact. Its just bizzare to have a system where you can only score points by hitting the most difficult targets (which also normally leave you open to attack).

Originally Posted by Big_al

I'm thinking of possibly getting some MMA training.

There are mixed martial art schools?

[Timberwolf]

Martial arts is sick stuff! I know alittle Muay Thai, Karate, Sailor Quin ( however its spelt) and some Krav Maga, and boxing but thats not martial arts just fun

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Sean

One of my friends made that same suggestion. He said to avoid Tae Kwon Do and take Hapkido instead.

It is supremely practical. Tae Kwon Do has too many areas that are off limits and seems too formalized. Hapkido was in my experience, extremely martial, little art, if you know what I mean. Literally my instructor started us first day teaching how to take somebody down. It was grueling practice.

I've been interested in American Kenpo since I saw The Perfect Weapon, and did some research on Jeff Speakman. Supposedly its the only film to depict American Kenpo which has a wide release.

Ed Parker brought it here. Thats enough for me. Well, that and sparring with Kenpo guys. Its a lot of fun, and its a nice blend of practicality and art.

Yeah at this school they not allow black belts at extremely young age, you can be an instructor at age 16....and they happen to have one extremely hyper-teenage girl third degree black belt instructor who was jumping up and
down while singing for the majority of the tournament.

IMO that signifies a belt factory. I have met a few kids who should have had their black belt early. (one fifth grader whose dad was an instructor who passed a grueling black belt test that began with an 8 mile timed run, followed by 2000 pushups, 2000 situps, then followed by appropriate defenses, use of weaponry and forms.) However, it was basically law that he had to wait on his black belt till he did it again at 18. Some schools allow the so called red belt to fill in this gap as essentially an underage black

Yeah. I don't know what the best balance of safety and practicality would be, but this just seemed absurd. People with greater skill were losing because their arms weren't as long or because they were having to attempt high kicks to try and win points. Every point the judges seemed to disagree on who made contact first or IF they made contact. Its just bizzare to have a system where you can only score points by hitting the most difficult targets (which also normally leave you open to attack).


There are mixed martial art schools?

Actually it makes perfect sense to have a point system with differing values based on where you get hit. For example, if I pop you with a flurry in the head, it will do more damage than a flurry to the chest most likely. The trick is to hit a high value target while avoiding getting hit.

FYI, elbow strikes are almost always barred. As are kicks on a planted leg. Elbow strikes are the most powerful strike you can deliver with your arms as the surface are of your elbow is the smallest. Thus its very easy to kill someone with it. And if anyone with martial arts training kicks a planted leg, that leg could very easily be broken or worse.

[sazahko]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

It is supremely practical. Tae Kwon Do has too many areas that are off limits and seems too formalized. Hapkido was in my experience, extremely martial, little art, if you know what I mean. Literally my instructor started us first day teaching how to take somebody down. It was grueling practice.

I'd like to interject that this varies vastly depending on the school. My TKD school, for example, is non-Olympic to the point where we essentially don't do point-sparring at all; we learn how to target for greatest effect, not for greatest number of points. Also, the few Hapkido practitioners I've met have actually been trained fairly impractically with a lot of momentum wasted in their movements and not much concentration on efficiency. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that generalization based on style is actually pretty difficult since there's a huge deal of difference between individual schools within basically any given style.

Ed Parker brought it here. Thats enough for me. Well, that and sparring with Kenpo guys. Its a lot of fun, and its a nice blend of practicality and art.

Kenpo's great stuff. A very good friend of mine is a black belt in American Kenpo, and I've taken group classes there. Good, solid choice for a school, generally speaking.

EDIT: Sean, there are definitely MMA schools around and about. You just have to know where to look for 'em.

-Sazzy

[Sean]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

It is supremely practical. Tae Kwon Do has too many areas that are off limits and seems too formalized. Hapkido was in my experience, extremely martial, little art, if you know what I mean. Literally my instructor started us first day teaching how to take somebody down. It was grueling practice.

That was essentially what my friend said. He also said that Tae Kwon Do, though it does have some fancy moves, is fairly basic or straight forward...which was noticeable at the contest because during sparring the black belts were using essentially the same techniques as the gold belts...though their impractical high kicks were crisper.

In all the time I went to martial arts, I never got the feeling that any of the actual material was practical for the real world. However, the instructor would give practical lessons on self-defense at the end of most sessions.

Ed Parker brought it here. Thats enough for me.

I've read his wikipedia article and know he develop American Kenpo, but why does his name mean such credibility to you?

IMO that signifies a belt factory.

Yeah. A whole family my wife is friends with go there and 3 of them are about to get their black belts. When the father was telling this to us, on the one hand I wanted to be happy for them, but on the other hand I was thinking to myself "Belt factory."

I have met a few kids who should have had their black belt early. (one fifth grader whose dad was an instructor who passed a grueling black belt test that began with an 8 mile timed run, followed by 2000 pushups, 2000 situps, then followed by appropriate defenses, use of weaponry and forms.) However, it was basically law that he had to wait on his black belt till he did it again at 18. Some schools allow the so called red belt to fill in this gap as essentially an underage black

Thats the sort of place I'd like to get a black belt from. If (big if) I ever get a black belt, I want it to really stand for something.

[Timberwolf]

Have any of you ever heard of Dim Muck? I was watching videos of it and like they slap people lighlty and it like shorts out there nervous system... or Keno Karate?

[Big_al]

Originally Posted by Sean

There are mixed martial art schools?

There is at least one trainer around here. Besides a chain family karate place there are only a few TKD dojos and this mma guy for martial arts in my area. ( I know MMA is a sport, not an art)

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Have any of you ever heard of Dim Muck? I was watching videos of it and like they slap people lighlty and it like shorts out there nervous system... or Keno Karate?

Dim Mak is manipulating pressure points, I think. I would hate to see someone try to incapacitate their opponent by lightly slapping them

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Have any of you ever heard of Dim Muck? I was watching videos of it and like they slap people lighlty and it like shorts out there nervous system... or Keno Karate?

Its one of the great martial arts legends...or myths. Supposedly the best kept secret of any martial art is the Dim Mak death touch.

Its so legendary its made its way into a number of different popular media. In the movie Bloodsport, they use Dim Mak to refer to palm striking a stack of bricks and only breaking the bottom one. In an episode of Batman the animated series, Batman goes back to Japan to stop a former rival of his from learning the secret of the Dim Mak death touch.

[Timberwolf]

Wow thats sweet stuff!

[JerryLove]

So I'll just come in on pg.6 and see what damage I can do

I've been interested in taking martial arts for the majority of my life, but I only managed to actual take classes, in Tukong Moosul...Korean Special Forces martial art, for a short period of time 5 or 6 years ago. I'm hoping to start taking classes again whenever graduate from college in May.

Personally, I never take "the millitary usese it" as a particularly good recomendation. Don't get me wrong, there are some millitary arts (like systema) that I'm very fond of... but so many people loose context in understanding the purpose of a given training cirriculum and just assume "millitary = better for me".

Anyway, I'm trying to decide what I want to take. I'd like something where the sparring is much more intense than what they were doing at the tournament I attended. The rules of the tournament almost seemed designed to remove most techniques and make it completely unlike a real fight.

They are actually intended to lower danger and to make sure that the match uses techniques in the art. A no-rules TKD match is grappling (which is not really covered in TKD).

I'm looking for a martial art with practical techniques and more intense sparring. Any suggestions?

To know what to take, you'd need to start bysaying what's available to you. What I *really* recommend though is that you go visit the local schools and see what you like. There's quite a bit of variance within a given art.

There do need to be some rules for tournaments. For example, allowing elbow strikes is just plain irresponsible.

I use them all the time in sparring.

I'm thinking of possibly getting some MMA training.

The classic MMA-mix (BJJ+MT+Boxing) is a great workout, very good sport, and pretty respectable fighting art (nothing like practce against resisting opponents to get experience). A little weak on the weapons-side and multiple-attacker solutions because of the focus on the sport side, so maybe not my first choice for bounty hunting; but a good choice indeed.

Dim Mak is manipulating pressure points, I think. I would hate to see someone try to incapacitate their opponent by lightly slapping them

Dim Mak attempts to refer to a subset of energetic manipulations (qigong) focused on killing the opponent.

Even working from the assumption it's a valid and useful fighting technique, it's not beginners stuff, and it's not useful without the rest of the martial background around it (not much use in him dying tomorrow if you die today).

Its so legendary its made its way into a number of different popular media. In the movie Bloodsport, they use Dim Mak to refer to palm striking a stack of bricks and only breaking the bottom one.

I've done that with boards. The tricky one is the middle one.