[saveferris1643]

Originally Posted by thesteve

fwiw...he is 43 now...in his first few years in the league (86-92) he never broke 35 HRs. From 93-99 he broke 40 twice. From 00-04 he broke 40 HRs every year (49, 73, 46, 45 and 45).

I think the view is that most players hit 30-35 years old and start to slow down. Bonds hit 35 in 99 and it started generating some serious power numbers at what is generally considered a slowdown time.

Exactly. Most people retire at 37-38. You'd be hard pressed to name anyone else who's power numbers impoved that dramatically at that age. Also, it is not just the fact he gained 35 pounds, but his head got bigger and his feet got 2 1/2 sizes bigger just like that! I don't see how people can think he did this completely clean.

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by monkeysmile

Can you prove he cheated? He's been tested countless times and has always come clean, and as we all know steroids must be taken continuously if they are to profit you anything. Bonds is 43 years old and has 22 homeruns this season, why do all those other homeruns he hit when he was younger and in better shape have to be from steroids? I'm getting so tired of all the Bonds haters saying he took steroids so they can try and make believe he didn't really break the record.

Except for the fact htat he failed an amphetamines test last year and blamed it on Mark Sweeney.Granted its not steroids but its not hard to imagine if he took an illegal substance one time he could easily have dont it before.

Originally Posted by monkeysmile

I believe he did it just as naturally as A-Rod is doing it or Aaron did it. How come nobody is accusing Rodriguez of steroids? Youngest player to 500, he must be cheating somehow.

Because they were more consistent.Aaron didnt break 50 hr's in a single season if im not mistaken.And i agree about the size also.It looks like he got broader(in the shoulders) and when your at that age your shoulders dont get broader with age they start getting a little thinner and you (should at least) start to decrease muscle a little bit.

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by thesteve

Thanks for the stats...you should've read them...A-Rod broke 35 home runs in his first full season. A-Rod's power numbers have been fairly consistent IMO.

you mean actually read?

Originally Posted by Adam K

You still grow in highschool. I don't see how that's relevant as Bonds wasn't a highschooler when he started.

[monkeysmile]

Originally Posted by thesteve

Thanks for the stats...you should've read them...A-Rod broke 35 home runs in his first full season. A-Rod's power numbers have been fairly consistent IMO.

I did read them. he went 35, 23, 42....that's inconsistent.

Originally Posted by Adam K

You still grow in highschool. I don't see how that's relevant as Bonds wasn't a highschooler when he started.

I'm just saying that putting on 30-35 lbs isn't a rare thing in sports.

Originally Posted by saveferris1643

Exactly. Most people retire at 37-38. You'd be hard pressed to name anyone else who's power numbers impoved that dramatically at that age. Also, it is not just the fact he gained 35 pounds, but his head got bigger and his feet got 2 1/2 sizes bigger just like that! I don't see how people can think he did this completely clean.

I'd be hard pressed to name anyone else because it's rare. That's why Barry Bonds is the homerun champ. Barry Bonds has averaged 34.363636 HR's per season, what's so unbelievable?

[monkeysmile]

Originally Posted by Iceman-bass14

And i agree about the size also.It looks like he got broader(in the shoulders) and when your at that age your shoulders dont get broader with age they start getting a little thinner and you (should at least) start to decrease muscle a little bit.

Not if you keep lifting weights. For pete's sake, there are 60+ body builders.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by monkeysmile

I did read them. he went 35, 23, 42....that's inconsistent.

You said that most players don't break 35 in their first few years though since Barry didn't do it from '86 to '92. In his first seven full seasons A-Rod did it...6 times. If you throw out the year he hit 23 he goes 35, 42, 42, 41, 52

[monkeysmile]

Originally Posted by thesteve

You said that most players don't break 35 in their first few years though since Barry didn't do it from '86 to '92. In his first seven full seasons A-Rod did it...6 times. If you throw out the year he hit 23 he goes 35, 42, 42, 41, 52

He's also rare. No other player in history has hit as many homeruns in so short a time. He wasn't a very good example.

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by monkeysmile

I'd be hard pressed to name anyone else because it's rare. That's why Barry Bonds is the homerun champ. Barry Bonds has averaged 34.363636 HR's per season, what's so unbelievable?

Whats so unbelievable is that he averaged that but still hit 73 in a season.thats 29 more than his average.And at the point when most players should start their decline.Its just not normal.I'll be happy when A-Rod breaks it.

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by monkeysmile

He's also rare. No other player in history has hit as many homeruns in so short a time. He wasn't a very good example.

If he wasnt a good example then why did you bring him up?

[monkeysmile]

Originally Posted by Iceman-bass14

If he wasnt a good example then why did you bring him up?

Because nobody is accusing him of steroids but he hits a lot of homeruns.

[Iceman-bass14]

Originally Posted by monkeysmile

Because nobody is accusing him of steroids but he hits a lot of homeruns.

He also doesnt look like the jolly gren giant.

[monkeysmile]

Originally Posted by Iceman-bass14

He also doesnt look like the jolly gren giant.

That's because he's a Yankee, Bonds is a Giant.

[Adam K]

He's sure tried to live up to the name.

[sabertooth181]

To clear some confusion, it is my understanding that Bonds was on human growth hormone. There is no test for HGH. This is not an arguement, it is a factual statement.

If you look at the course of his career you will notice that he gains weight gradually. You see the clip from his rookie year and then you see him now and notice a big difference, but it was actually gradual increase over a long time. So it's not like he became a monster over night.

[Ordinary Sarah]

I have a question... I don't know much about steroid testing and baseball, but I do know how it used to work in cycling.


Last year, when Floyd Landis was disqualified from the Tour de France, the race's official tests were only done a few months at a time, and they weren't an all-or-nothing policy. If you had below a certain amount of steroids in your system, you were deemed "okay to race". A huge number of racers fell below the accepted levels.... this year, racers are protesting this policy, saying that any and all levels of steroids are a crime in the sport. Lance Armstrong is also a huge advocate of this, who requires his riders to pass tests every few weeks, and they are dismissed if they have any levels in their bodies whatsoever.


Does anyone know (for fact) what the policy is on steroids when it comes to baseball? I heard someone say earlier that he absolutely, 100% was not on steroids, that he's passed all the tests he's taken. My question is... has he passed scott-free, or does the MLB have a similar policy to that of the Tour de France?




*edit* I found an article that adressed this issue. Here's what it said about the policy:

Evolution of the steroid policy

2002

• Before 2002, Major League Baseball had no official policy on steroid use among players. As part of a collective bargaining agreement, players and owners agree to hold survey testing in 2003. If more than 5% of results from the anonymous tests are positive, formal testing and penalties will be put into place the next year.

2003

• Baseball announces after the season that 5% to 7% of test results were positive, triggering the new policy in 2004.

2004

• Each player is tested once a year in season. A first positive test results in treatment, followed by a 15-day suspension for a second positive and up to a year suspension for a fifth positive. The result is no player is suspended for steroid use.

2005

• Baseball agrees to a new policy. Banned substances include steroids, steroid precursors, designer steroids, masking agents and diuretics. There will be one unannounced mandatory test of each player during the season. In addition, there will be testing of randomly selected players, with no maximum number. And there will be random testing during the offseason. The penalties for a positive result are, first positive, 10 days; second, 30 days; third, 60 days; fourth, one year, and all without pay.

Baseball's new steroid policy

Banned substances

• Steroids, steroid precursors and designer steroids, as well as masking agents and diuretics.

Testing

• One unannounced mandatory test of each player during season.

• Random testing of selected players, with no maximum number.

• Random testing during the offseason.

Suspensions (all without pay)

• First positive test: 10 days.

• Second positive test: 30 days.

• Third positive test: 60 days.

• Fourth positive test: One year.

The only thing I saw that supported a zero tolerance policy as far as levels was when it said that a player will be suspended "at a first positive test treatment". However, they seem to be working more on the schedules of testing, trying to make up for long gaps between tests. I know that, in cycling, this never worked, because they allowed riders to take rain checks on tests for various issues. Also, they continually delayed suspension during the race, even when a rider was found positive. I still can't tell what their policy is, exactly, but the article mentioned that the changes were triggered by Bonds admitting to using steroids in a court of law a couple years back.


Here is the article. FYI, this article is about two years old.