[Adam]

Here is some more support of Secular Music...

http://www.razormouth.com/cgi-local/...&id=1025628950

I am just going to keep pouring on the proof.

[Scott]

cool website adam, I'm reading some of it now. And the album they talk about in the essay is amazing, as are the band. And they are from my area!

[slimjimtoejam]

Hey! somebody read my post way back a couple of pages ago. Slimjimtoejam is my name. Now then, I recall somebody saying we should use secular music as a tool to win souls. how exactly would you do that? by making your music better? that's not how Jesus said to win souls. He said for us to let our light shine among men, so they'll see the difference in us and want what we have. Letting our light shine meaning like standing out and being different. If an unsaved person knows we listen to the same stuff they do, with bad language, etc. Now here me out, METALLICA IS GOOD MUSIC!!! but I don't think we should listen to it because of what I had just mentioned. The ONLY advantage I'm seeing in listening to that kind of stuff is to make your music better, and that shouldn't be the top of the priority list.

[Mrstickball]

How can you use secular music to win souls?


Learn how certain guitarists and vocalists use thier voices and guitar work on thier songs, and improve on yours to become a better guitarist/singer for Jesus (IE, for myself, I listen to alot of secular music to spruce up my praise and worship when I can by learning a few scales and licks by unsaved guitarists)....I also assume you could emulate certain vocal stylings by secular artists to improve your vocal range.

One sad thing is, there are very very very few good skilled Christian bands out there that would make unsaved people take a second look at thier music........

I listen to Metallica.....Why? Kirk Hammret is one of the best guitarists in the world, and his playing style influences my playing.....And one question is : what defines bad lyrics?

Making your music better is key if you want to write praise and worship music (which I want to do)....After all, without knowledge of how to match chords to vocals, improvized solos, ect. you really won't be able to write a good praise and worship song.....Some secular artists do a very very good job of matching vocal patterns to chords and soloing, and Im still trying to find more than a half dozen Christian artists that put out the kind of style of music I like.....

Another part is, I want to create different music than the 90% of Christian music I hear on the raido, its all "this Christian band sounds like this secular band".....Personally, I think it needs to stop, so Im drawing from a wide range of talents, and unfortunately, very few Christian guitarists covered the areas Im influcenced in.

[Adam]

cool website adam, I'm reading some of it now. And the album they talk about in the essay is amazing, as are the band. And they are from my area!

Awesome! And to note, this is a Reformed website. That is really cool that this band is in your area. I will have to check out their stuff!

Another note, bookmark this site. It has great articles covering all sorts of topics form a distinctly Christian and Reformed worldview, and some of the writers are extremely witty and hilarious.

[Danny]

I'm a hard rock fan, and I've personally decided to give up secular music altogether. (except Creed, those guys rock!) Mainly because it's really hard to find decent (secular) rock music that's not all about death or drugs. For example, Incubus, on the surface seems like a decent band. But then, after listening to "Wish You Were Here" and "Warning" over and over, you start thinking to yourself, these guys are awesome, and when you finally do hear the cursing in thier songs, or find out what thier name means, it's too late. You're hooked.

[slimjimtoejam]

Hey Mrstickball, you have a really good point. What are metallica's lyrics like, btw? alright, I concede, that listening to some secular music is ok IF you are simply trying to create your own stuff and want influences/ideas. There really is no christian equivalent to metallica. Alright, now then, listening to secular music (i.e. turning on the radio) just because IT'S "good music" and just because you want to hear good music probably (read my other posts) isn't a good idea, yes? and you shouldn't be listening to it unless you are getting your church band in gear to play new Christian styles, right?

[Mrstickball]

Most of Metallicas lyrics are your basic heavy metal stuff....However, most of the stuff I listen to is thier instrumental stuff (S&M).....When I do in fact listen to bands lyrics , I always take the stance that they're an unsaved band, that since they do not have Christ, they are always struggling with things in the world (hate, lust, insanity)....Which gives you good insight on why bands sing the way they do.

However, a few few bands do have lyrics that do not deal with our sinful nature, but things that happen in the course of our life (IE, love), which I don't think isn't objectable as long as it isn't lust.....

Do I sugguest Christians listen to secular bands (like Metallica)...Thats all in your decision, if the Holy Spirit speaks to you and says its wrong to listen to it, don't listen to it. I make sure I do that by avoiding bands like Slipknot, Slayer, Manson, ect.

Another thing I do....Which is interesting to me, is look at bands like Creed, Black Sabbath, Alice Cooper, Disturbed and various other bands, and see how when you lead a sinful life, it can influcence your life and how you write your music....Which I find interesting even with bands I really don't listen to.

[Scott]

Alright, now then, listening to secular music (i.e. turning on the radio) just because IT'S "good music" and just because you want to hear good music probably (read my other posts) isn't a good idea, yes

Patent nonsense, please read the rest of the thread. And the Technics or Aesthetics thread.

[slimjimtoejam]

ok, I will. where's those threads at? could you give me a link or something? I don't know how to find them...

[outlawnemesis]

Kirk Hammret is one of the best guitarists in the world

No. I'm sorry you feel that way, here is a very small list of better guitarists:

Steve Vai
Yngwie Malmsteen
Joe Satriani
Jeff Becker
John Petrucci
Marty Friedman
Dave Mustaine
Michael Angelo

And Metallica is my favorite band, but I can't stand it when people think they are be all end all musicians

Most of Metallicas lyrics are your basic heavy metal stuff....However, most of the stuff I listen to is thier instrumental stuff (S&M)...

Most of Metallica's lyrics are very meaninful and poetic, and S&M only has one instrumental out of it's 20 songs...

[outlawnemesis]

*Note: S&M has 21 songs, but the first song is the symphony without Metallica so that doesn't really count...

[Mrstickball]

Originally posted by outlawnemesis
No. I'm sorry you feel that way, here is a very small list of better guitarists:

Steve Vai
Yngwie Malmsteen
Joe Satriani
Jeff Becker
John Petrucci
Marty Friedman
Dave Mustaine
Michael Angelo

And Metallica is my favorite band, but I can't stand it when people think they are be all end all musicians

Most of Metallica's lyrics are very meaninful and poetic, and S&M only has one instrumental out of it's 20 songs...

I said Kirk was ONE of the best.....I never said he was the best. He's one of my many influences (as well as Iommi, Rhodes, and half the ones you listed). Kirk has his own style which I find intersting, and because of that, he's one of my favorite guitarists...Usually what I do is find Metallca songs WITHOUT the lyrics, they're hard to find, but I've been able to get a few of them without the vocals, thus thats why I said Instrumental.

[outlawnemesis]

Metallica - ...And Justice For All

Halls of Justice Painted Green
Money Talking
Power Wolves Beset Your Door
Hear Them Stalking
Soon You'll Please Their Appetite
They Devour
Hammer of Justice Crushes You
Overpower

Bridge:
The Ultimate in Vanity
Exploiting Their Supremacy
I Can't Believe the Things You Say
I Can't Believe
I Can't Believe the Price We Pay
Nothing Can Save You

Chorus:
Justice Is Lost
Justice Is Raped
Justice Is Gone
Pulling Your Strings
Justice Is Done
Seeking No Truth
Winning Is All
Find it So Grim
..........So True
..........So Real
Seeking No Truth
Winning Is All
Find it So Grim
..........So True
..........So Real

Apathy Their Stepping Stone
So Unfeeling
Hidden Deep Animosity
So Deceiving
Through Your Eyes Their Light Burns
Hoping to Find
Inquisition Sinking You
With Prying Minds

Bridge

Chorus

Lady Justice Has Been Raped
Truth Assassin
Rolls of Red Tape Seal Your Lips
Now You're Done in
Their Money Tips Her Scales Again
Make Your Deal
Just What Is Truth? I Cannot Tell
Cannot Feel

Bridge

Chorus

Metallica - Eye Of The Beholder

Do You See What I See?
Truth Is an Offence
You Silence for Your Confidence
Do You Hear What I Hear?
Doors Are Slamming Shut
Limit Your Imagination, Keep You Where They must
Do You Feel What I Feel?
Bittering Distress
Who Decides What You Express
Do You Take What I Take?
Endurance Is the Word
Moving Back Instead of Forward Seems to Me Absurd

Bridge:
Doesn't Matter What You See?
Or into it What You Read
You Can Do it Your Own Way
If It's Done Just How I Say

Chorus:
Independence Limited
Freedom of Choice
Choice Is Made for You My Friend
Freedom of Speech
Speech Is Words That They Will Bend
Freedom with Their Exception

Do You Fear What I Fear?
Living Properly
Truths to You Are Lies to Me
Do You Choose What I Choose?
More Alternives
Energy Derives from Both the Plus and Negative
Do You Need What I Need?
Boundaries Overthrown
Look Inside to Each His Own
Do You Trust What I Trust?
Me, Myself and I
Penetrate the Smoke Screen I See Through the Selfish Lie

Bridge

Chorus

Do You Know What I Know?
Your Money End Your Wealth
Your Silence Just to Hear Your Self
Do You Want What I Want?
Desire Not a Thing
I Hunger after Independence, Lengthen Freedom's Ring
Doesn't Matter What You See
Or into it What You Read
You Can Do it Your Own Way
If It's Done Just How I Say

Bridge

Chorus

Metallica - For Whom The Bell Tolls

Make his fight on the hill in the early day
Constant chill deep inside
Shouting gun, on they run through the endless grey
On the fight, for they are right, yes, by who's to say?
For a hill men would kill, why? They do not know
Suffered wounds test there their pride
Men of five, still alive through the raging glow
Gone insane from the pain that they surely know

Chorus:
For whom the bell tolls
Time marches on
For whom the bell tolls

Take a look to the sky just before you die
It is the last time you will
Blackened roar massive roar fills the crumbling sky
Shattered goal fills his soul with a ruthless cry
Stranger now, are his eyes, to this mystery
He hears the silence so loud
Crack of dawn, all is gone except the will to be
Now the will see what will be, blinded eyes to see

Chorus

[outlawnemesis]

basic heavy metal stuff

I find this statement very ignorant, bands like Megadeth, In Flames, and especially Opeth are very poetic.