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View Poll Results: Should you listen to secular music?
It's not really a big deal 155 64.58%
No, you should not listen to secular music 44 18.33%
You should listen to Secular Music 41 17.08%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 05-31-2002, 06:19 PM   #46
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Yes, those are good guitarists, jguitarfreak. However...... They play the kind of music I am not interested in.......And for every one unique Christian guitarist playing a specific genre a special way, I can name 5 secular musicans in the same genre that played just as good, if not better.......Can you name me a christian contemporary guitarist that can do rockabilly? blues? jazz? 70s rock and roll, and old heavy metal WHEN secular bands were doing the exact same thing? Untill I can find one, I will listen to B.B King, Buddy Holly, Rolling Stones, and Black Sabbath, untill I can find one!

I believe in order to buck the trend of bad Christian guitarists we see today (not trying to be mean or anything, but both Christian and secular are going the same way).....Im having to go back 20 and 30 years......Where no Christian alternatives are.....

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Unread 05-31-2002, 08:03 PM   #47
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[The Philosopher]First, they are not really "excuses", but reasons I listen to secular music. I believe secular music has been used in a wrong way by unbelieving musicians-but that doesn't mean I have an anti-intellectual attitude and dismiss it. Rather, I take advantage of what people use for evil, and I use it for good-examining unbelieving presuppositions, refuting them, and enjoying the musical beauty that God has even granted to those who deny Him. Is that not one of the glories of our Creator? That we may observe His glory even through those who are opposed to Christ. Once again, God's glory is not absent from even the minutest detail of existence (Romans 1), and it is ignorance for us to ignore it.

[me] you could use that reasoning to justify bout anything your flesh wants to hang on to

you have pretty much made fun of my unintellect, but that's awright.............even if secular music is wrong you'll never fall from grace so what are we worried about huh?
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Unread 05-31-2002, 09:44 PM   #48
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[me] you could use that reasoning to justify bout anything your flesh wants to hang on to
Really? Give me an example.

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you have pretty much made fun of my unintellect, but that's awright.............even if secular music is wrong you'll never fall from grace so what are we worried about huh?
I have not really made fun of your intellect, and if I did, I am sorry. I am just trying to get you to think about the issues at hand rather than thumping your Bible at me. You have been the rude one so far, labeling my reasoning as excuses to cling to sinfulness. You accuse me of masking my intentions for continuing sin in my life. On the other hand, I have not accused you of such a thing. All I am asking is a little thinking going on, rather than Bible-thumping. I am not saying that the Bible is irrelevant;quite the contrary. I would rather have you read your Bible and think than just smack down a verse on me without taking into account my reasoning.

I'll never fall from grace? What are you saying here?

What about the rest of my post? You have just chosen to critique my introduction with not reason, but ill-founded phrases that have attacked me rather than my reasoning. I think you have nothing else to say to my reasoning at this point. There is no definite answer you can come up with. All you can say is "Its in the Bible, and you are ignoring it! You are still of the flesh!" God calls us to read our Bible with discernment. That is not what you have been doing.
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Unread 06-01-2002, 08:47 AM   #49
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[The Philosopher]I have not really made fun of your intellect, and if I did, I am sorry. I am just trying to get you to think about the issues at hand rather than thumping your Bible at me. You have been the rude one so far, labeling my reasoning as excuses to cling to sinfulness. You accuse me of masking my intentions for continuing sin in my life. On the other hand, I have not accused you of such a thing. All I am asking is a little thinking going on, rather than Bible-thumping. I am not saying that the Bible is irrelevant;quite the contrary. I would rather have you read your Bible and think than just smack down a verse on me without taking into account my reasoning.

I'll never fall from grace? What are you saying here?

What about the rest of my post? You have just chosen to critique my introduction with not reason, but ill-founded phrases that have attacked me rather than my reasoning. I think you have nothing else to say to my reasoning at this point. There is no definite answer you can come up with. All you can say is "Its in the Bible, and you are ignoring it! You are still of the flesh!" God calls us to read our Bible with discernment. That is not what you have been doing.

[me] your last post was still saying "excuse me"...............and further more you didn't address all points in my post or answer some questions i asked you.................your reasoning stinks.............the pharisees studied the law with discernment and had it twisted around so that they justified everything they did..............study, with discernment, what Jesus said about them

you have posted absolutly no scriptures to back up your reasoning................i guess what i really need to say is if you wanna listen to secular music that's your business, PLEASE just call it what it is

i had rather be a bible thunper than a compromise thumper
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Unread 06-01-2002, 03:27 PM   #50
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boogeray, calm down, and stop speaking to people like a televangelist. You are entitled to your views, as is Adam (thephilosopher). But you are not entitled to criticise Adam, only his reasoning. No effectively calling him a heretical compromiser.

And if you read the posts properly, you'd see at least one reference, Romans 1 I think it was.
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Unread 06-01-2002, 06:32 PM   #51
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[me] your last post was still saying "excuse me"...............and further more you didn't address all points in my post or answer some questions i asked you.................your reasoning stinks.............the pharisees studied the law with discernment and had it twisted around so that they justified everything they did..............study, with discernment, what Jesus said about them
You have a very hypocritical attitude, which is exactly what Jesus criticized the Pharisees for. I did was address all the questions you asked me in detail. All you can give me are little disjointed sentences that do no more than attack my character. If my reasoning stinks, why do you only "critique" (if that is even what it can be called) the first paragraph of my post? You have no defense at all. At least, when you accuse me of being a heretic back it up.

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i had rather be a bible thunper than a compromise thumper
Even if it means disregarding reason, you forgot to add that.

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you have posted absolutly no scriptures to back up your reasoning................i guess what i really need to say is if you wanna listen to secular music that's your business, PLEASE just call it what it is
As Scott said, I had quoted Romans. This proves how much thought you put into mine and other people's posts. One even wonders if you read my post. Besides, if I gave you more Scripture, you would still stick with your Fundamentalist attitude and disregard what I have to say.

I will be sure to put more Scripture next time I post, just for the record. Then you will be completely without excuse.
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Unread 06-01-2002, 07:08 PM   #52
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Unread 06-01-2002, 07:13 PM   #53
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secular music is so powerful and plays such a major role in the lifestyle i just mentioned..............i can't understand how any christian can justify it.................listening to secular music is like commiting spiritual fornication...............we are the bride of Christ, why would we by any means want to keep up the affair we are having with the world

(Luke)
I wasn't going to jump in on this discussion...then I changed my mind. I'm curious as to why listening to secular music is necessarily spiritual fornication? Aren't there many things that are uplifting that are not necessarily directly Christian?

You have made an excellent case against spiritual adultery. What you have not done is shown why listening to secular music constitutes such.

Oh, as a side note, don't tell me I'm trying to justify my flesh's desire to listen to secular music. You won't get anywhere, because I don't ever listen to secular music. (In fact, I dislike most Christian music)
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Unread 06-02-2002, 09:02 AM   #54
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Unread 06-03-2002, 02:51 PM   #55
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I wasn't going to jump in on this discussion...then I changed my mind. I'm curious as to why listening to secular music is necessarily spiritual fornication? Aren't there many things that are uplifting that are not necessarily directly Christian?

You have made an excellent case against spiritual adultery. What you have not done is shown why listening to secular music constitutes such.

Oh, as a side note, don't tell me I'm trying to justify my flesh's desire to listen to secular music. You won't get anywhere, because I don't ever listen to secular music. (In fact, I dislike most Christian music)

[me]well just how does someone commit spiritual adultery??.............i can't see any other way but by whoring after the things of the world and yes the line is kinda blurred tween secular and christian and there is lots more christian music that i pass on than what i listen to

i'll tell you what i believe and i don't feel like trying to prove all this so don't expect it, as some of it is experience and i know how ya'll feel about personal experience

satan was created by God as music minister in heaven............in a sense he was praise & worship leader for all the angels...............he didn't just play instruments, he was the instruments...............strings, percussion and wind instruments are mentioned...............satan wanted the glory and praise that he was giving to God and how ever it came about he was given the boot.........God did not take music from him and he still to this day wants priase and glory..............several bands openly give satan glory, Stones included...............i believe most secular artists are either directly or indirectly (knowingly or unknowingly) giving glory to satan, which he desires even more now than ever

don't tell me my experience don't bear any weight either...............i have been on the dark side of secular music and i do realize most on here are younger and probably are kinda like spectators....................music is powerful and attractive and i can't understand how somebody can compare it to something like math for example..............it fits into the drug/sex scene like a hand & glove, as i believe satan meant it to............it enhances and changes moods towards evil and not good...............it has a draw that is very strong, why else would folks fefend it so.............course my experience don't mean squat as has awready been pointed out................there may be some secular songs that are not that bad, but why cull thru all the crude just to find that one song

i don't expact you to agree, so like i said don't expect me to show proof.............but i think if everything i said was proven you would have to call it spiritual adultry
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Unread 06-03-2002, 06:47 PM   #56
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satan was created by God as music minister in heaven............in a sense he was praise & worship leader for all the angels...............he didn't just play instruments, he was the instruments...............strings, percussion and wind instruments are mentioned
ya know, I've never seen this in the Bible. You got the verses, or just believing a myth?

and don't expect to make points, tell us we are commiting spiritual adultery and then say "But, I won't prove it, because I don't feel like it." Surely, if you are right, you have a duty to prove your points, to lead us from our evil ways?
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Unread 06-03-2002, 07:32 PM   #57
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Ezekiel 28
13You were in [1] Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the carnelian, topaz, jasper, chrysolite, beryl, onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and your settings and your sockets and engravings were wrought in gold. On the day that you were created they were prepared.(2)
14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].(3)
15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.
16Through the abundance of your commerce you were filled with lawlessness and violence, and you sinned; therefore I cast you out as a profane thing from the mountain of God and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire.
17Your heart was proud and lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I lay you before kings, that they might gaze at you.
18You have profaned your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities and the enormity of your guilt, by the unrighteousness of your trade. Therefore I have brought forth a fire from your midst; it has consumed you, and I have reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who looked at you.

Isaiah 14
11Your pomp and magnificence are brought down to Sheol (the underworld), along with the sound of your harps; the maggots [which prey upon dead bodies] are spread out under you and worms cover you [O Babylonian rulers].
12How have you fallen from heaven, O [2] light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]
13And you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit upon the mount of assembly in the uttermost north.
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.
15Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol (Hades), to the innermost recesses of the pit (the region of the dead).
16
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Unread 06-04-2002, 11:24 AM   #58
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i'll tell you what i believe and i don't feel like trying to prove all this so don't expect it

(Luke)
Because you can't.

(boogeray)
God did not take music from him and he still to this day wants priase and glory..............several bands openly give satan glory, Stones included...............i believe most secular artists are either directly or indirectly (knowingly or unknowingly) giving glory to satan, which he desires even more now than ever

(Luke)
I'm not denying that there is secular music that is bad. As a matter of fact, I don't think anyone yet has denied that. The question at hand is whether or not secular music is bad by definition. Is a song that doesn't talk about God automatically bad solely on the basis that it doesn't talk about God?

Surely there is secular music that either directly and indirectly glorifies the devil. I won't argue with you there. But that doesn't mean that secular music does so by definition.

(boogeray)
it [secular music] has a draw that is very strong, why else would folks defend it so.............

(Luke)
I'm defending it because it puts Christianity in a very negative light when we make Pharisetical restrictions. I understand that in this area we often walk a tightrope, with legalism on one side and disregard for God's Law on the other. But we need to be sure we don't fall off the tightrope on either side. I do not believe God has commanded us to stay away from secular music, and you have not given me any Biblical reason for me to be compelled to believe such.

Just like the age-old debates over things like wine and dancing, when the church has imposed extra-biblical restrictions on Christians, causing unnecessary division in the church and making the church look even more foolish to outsiders, you are imposing an extra-biblical restriction on Adam (and company). And that is why I feel the need to defend secular music, not because secular music holds any draw on me (it doesn't).

(boogeray)
there may be some secular songs that are not that bad, but why cull thru all the crude just to find that one song

(Luke)
I would be inclined to agree with you in principle if we were dealing with a needle in a haystack ratio, but I don't believe that is the case.

(boogeray)
but i think if everything i said was proven you would have to call it spiritual adultry

(Luke)
This is completely and totally irrelevant seeing as how you can't prove it.
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Unread 06-04-2002, 01:21 PM   #59
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i'll tell you what i believe and i don't feel like trying to prove all this so don't expect it

(Luke)
Because you can't.


[me]oh i know not in your eyes, that's why i said what i did but to me there's proof beyond a shadow of a doubt...........i did post the scriptures though and i have proved as much in the direction i am going as the ones going in the other direction...................BTW luke just out of curiosity what would you consider to be spiritual adultary, i mean just a couple of examples that apply to us today............not just general terms............and in your opinion just how much of the things of the world should we hold on to (or do we get to choose) in view of the scriptures that speak of such things..................it's like saying ok Lord i'm all yours except this area right here, you need to stay away from that cuz i intead to hang on to it

(Luke)
I'm defending it because it puts Christianity in a very negative light when we make Pharisetical restrictions. I understand that in this area we often walk a tightrope, with legalism on one side and disregard for God's Law on the other. But we need to be sure we don't fall off the tightrope on either side. I do not believe God has commanded us to stay away from secular music, and you have not given me any Biblical reason for me to be compelled to believe such.

Just like the age-old debates over things like wine and dancing, when the church has imposed extra-biblical restrictions on Christians, causing unnecessary division in the church and making the church look even more foolish to outsiders, you are imposing an extra-biblical restriction on Adam (and company). And that is why I feel the need to defend secular music, not because secular music holds any draw on me (it doesn't).

[me]ok...........as i see it the bible is full of scripture that apply to secular music and if all people here are just babes in Christ then that's another thing to............but my take on it is most folks here are gonna at least be in some sort of leadership position in the body if not ordained ministers, so i'm not talking to some delicate new christians that don't know if the are washing or hanging out..............to me it's very "Pharisetical" to always hunt some loophole or study the bible just to try and justify some questionable lifestyle or action
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Unread 06-04-2002, 01:48 PM   #60
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ok...........as i see it the bible is full of scripture that apply to secular music..........................
Would you mind showing some of the places where it's "full of scripture that apply to secular music"?
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