[Mattlock]

David Bazan is the only Christian artist - Weather it be musician, writer, ect. that openly admits his sins explicitly that I have heard. He admits that he is an adulterer and an alcoholic.

Most of it, in the case of Skillet or TFK, it's more of a "Sorry fer sinning Jeebus! I did it! I'm wrong!"

[JerRocks2day]

Another factor of the "avoid secular music" phenominum, is that some people use "no secular music" method because they claim if you listen to it, "you won't get raptured!" Don't get me wrong, I still believe in the rapture of the church and that we have to be ready; but to avoid secular music as a way to get raptured is still messed up. I mean really. Most Christian artists (including Pillar) have been musically influenced by what other Christians label "junk." People today are more concerned of throwing the baby out with the water that they can't learn to appreciate the sound of music. And I'm sure that we can still be raptureready and still take musical influences from other secular artists.

Any other thoughts on what I've said?

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by JerRocks2day

Another factor of the "avoid secular music" phenominum, is that some people use "no secular music" method because they claim if you listen to it, "you won't get raptured!" Don't get me wrong, I still believe in the rapture of the church and that we have to be ready; but to avoid secular music as a way to get raptured is still messed up. I mean really. Most Christian artists (including Pillar) have been musically influenced by what other Christians label "junk." People today are more concerned of throwing the baby out with the water that they can't learn to appreciate the sound of music. And I'm sure that we can still be raptureready and still take musical influences from other secular artists.

Any other thoughts on what I've said?

that whoever said that was a moron on crack?

Paul quoted a song to Zeus in Acts 17:28. Obviously he was familiar with the pagan music of his day. Not secular even, but pagan.

[JerRocks2day]

that whoever said that was a moron on crack?

Paul quoted a song to Zeus in Acts 17:28. Obviously he was familiar with the pagan music of his day. Not secular even, but pagan.

I guess the concern is the lyrics and trying to keep a person from being polluted by the world. That's a different issue. If I want to listen to music just to try to emulate the sound and not lyrics, that should be okay.

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by JerRocks2day

I guess the concern is the lyrics and trying to keep a person from being polluted by the world. That's a different issue. If I want to listen to music just to try to emulate the sound and not lyrics, that should be okay.

But what's wrong with listening to and appreciating the lyrics as well? I don't know about you, but I really love the lyrics to a lot of well-written secular songs -- even ones with messages I don't necessarily agree with. Because I think we can admire and learn from the skill of good songwriters without accepting or condoning their every message.

Take Tom Waits -- he's not a Christian, and I certainly don't agree with all of his ideas, but I also think he's an amazing songwriter. While I love his music, his lyrics are a big part of why I listen to him so much. And I've allowed his style and voice to influence my writing in a lot of ways while maintaining a much different worldview. Being influenced by another's craft, be it music or lyrics, is far different than being influenced by their message or lifestyle.

[JerRocks2day]

But what's wrong with listening to and appreciating the lyrics as well? I don't know about you, but I really love the lyrics to a lot of well-written secular songs -- even ones with messages I don't necessarily agree with. Because I think we can admire and learn from the skill of good songwriters without accepting or condoning their every message.

You do have a point. Any advice on how I take try influence from songwriting without getting polluted by the world? Even though, I think this should be brought up in Songwriting forums.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by JerRocks2day

You do have a point. Any advice on how I take try influence from songwriting without getting polluted by the world? Even though, I think this should be brought up in Songwriting forums.

look at the artistry and use of words. It's just like poetry. When you read poetry do you think, "wow...this author really knew how to use words" or do you think, "i shouldn't be reading this because this poet isn't a Christian"?

[JerRocks2day]

look at the artistry and use of words. It's just like poetry. When you read poetry do you think, "wow...this author really knew how to use words" or do you think, "i shouldn't be reading this because this poet isn't a Christian"?

I do feel like this sometimes. I get concerned on certain lyrical content these days.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by JerRocks2day

I do feel like this sometimes. I get concerned on certain lyrical content these days.

there's certainly inappropriate lyrics...the key is to be discerning. Not every secular artist is singing about hedonistic living.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by thesteve

there's certainly inappropriate lyrics...the key is to be discerning. Not every secular artist is singing about hedonistic living.

exactly. A lot of them are rather harmless and or meaningless. (The same could be said of much of Christian music as well) And some are downright insightful.

[JerRocks2day]

exactly. A lot of them are rather harmless and or meaningless. (The same could be said of much of Christian music as well) And some are downright insightful.

Steve Camp could've said that better.

[Jenacen]

Originally Posted by JerRocks2day

You do have a point. Any advice on how I take try influence from songwriting without getting polluted by the world? Even though, I think this should be brought up in Songwriting forums.

As far as avoiding pollution goes, I would start by praying and asking God to help you be discerning and alert so you don't compromise or start down a path you shouldn't. If someone wanted to study, say, Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion" to learn exactly what the atheistic world is thinking, being led by, and how to counteract it, that is most encouragable. For your own spirit's sake though, don't let yourself become desensitized to any harmful content or messages conveyed. Love the sinners, but do hate the sin. Remember that in everything, nothing is worth your close walk with God.

Like thesteve said, study the artistry of the words, maybe get a few ideas for rhyme schemes or song structures. Look for rhymes that stand out as being unique and fitting, and identify what sounds common, bland and cliched. Decide what lines you like, and what you don't. Explain to yourself why. As an exercise, try copying their style. Listen to how the words are sang, where there's emphasis, where there's not, etc. As you listen, take notes on any and all observations you have about the song. For more fun, write down ideas on how you think the song could be better. In everything, be specific and detailed. Give yourself a lot of information to work with. Something that could be fun to do too is to write a parody and set yourself up with some rules, eg. "All lines must match syllable for syllable/rhyme schemes must be exactly the same/the new rhymes must rhyme with the old words/it must be about this-and-that-topic."

Good luck bro! Wish you the best!

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by Jenacen

Like thesteve said, study the artistry of the words, maybe get a few ideas for rhyme schemes or song structures. Look for rhymes that stand out as being unique and fitting, and identify what sounds common, bland and cliched. Decide what lines you like, and what you don't. Explain to yourself why. As an exercise, try copying their style. Listen to how the words are sang, where there's emphasis, where there's not, etc. As you listen, take notes on any and all observations you have about the song. For more fun, write down ideas on how you think the song could be better. In everything, be specific and detailed. Give yourself a lot of information to work with. Something that could be fun to do too is to write a parody and set yourself up with some rules, eg. "All lines must match syllable for syllable/rhyme schemes must be exactly the same/the new rhymes must rhyme with the old words/it must be about this-and-that-topic."

This is really excellent (and thorough) advice. Jenacen, you should post this in the advice thread in the songwriting forum. It's relevant here too, but I think it'd be good for people there to read.

[earlessdog]

It's probably not a great idea to jump in this thread 1700 posts in, but I just want to say something here.
I know a lot of people don't have a problem with secular music at all, such as myself. I'm not sure if that's wrong or not, I dont' really think about it that much, mostly because i'm afraid of losing my beautiful secular music. (I mean, not listening to it anymore because of a change of what I feel is right).
But I want to bring my friend into this, he is a very wise guy, and he can't listen to secular music without getting a very strong feeling that he is doing wrong.
For instance, I lent him the newest Drop Dead, Gorgeous album and he loved it. But he soon gave it back to me, because he couldn't handle it, God was telling him it was wrong(he felt). That album I can see why I guess, it's a concept about a mass murderer(singer is the character). Basically every song is about how he kills another person. There are explicit lyrics as well.
But I dont' feel guilty listening to it.
Then when he listens to much much milder secular music, he just feels like he is doing wrong.
And this isn't the result of being brough up in a cult or something like that, he is an ordinary guy.

So, as much as I don't want to think it, I think secular music is maybe "wrong". Though I don't have a problem listening to it, when I see God work in people like that, I get the impression that it is wrong. We have to remember that God created music, and if i'm not mistaken, to glorify him?
I know lots of people will bring up the "it's your own personel conviction" thing in circumstances such as this, but I think we need to keep in mind that we need God's influence in our personel convictions.
My "personel conviction" let's me listen to Drop Dead, Gorgeous and their album about violently killing people(even thought there is a "moral" that a killer can be someone you trust the most).
My personel conviction let's me bad mouth people I don't like, or hurt someone I don't like, but am I letting God be an influence in my convictions?

[rock_show_host]

Originally Posted by earlessdog

It's probably not a great idea to jump in this thread 1700 posts in, but I just want to say something here.
I know a lot of people don't have a problem with secular music at all, such as myself. I'm not sure if that's wrong or not, I dont' really think about it that much, mostly because i'm afraid of losing my beautiful secular music. (I mean, not listening to it anymore because of a change of what I feel is right).
But I want to bring my friend into this, he is a very wise guy, and he can't listen to secular music without getting a very strong feeling that he is doing wrong.
For instance, I lent him the newest Drop Dead, Gorgeous album and he loved it. But he soon gave it back to me, because he couldn't handle it, God was telling him it was wrong(he felt). That album I can see why I guess, it's a concept about a mass murderer(singer is the character). Basically every song is about how he kills another person. There are explicit lyrics as well.
But I dont' feel guilty listening to it.
Then when he listens to much much milder secular music, he just feels like he is doing wrong.
And this isn't the result of being brough up in a cult or something like that, he is an ordinary guy.

So, as much as I don't want to think it, I think secular music is maybe "wrong". Though I don't have a problem listening to it, when I see God work in people like that, I get the impression that it is wrong. We have to remember that God created music, and if i'm not mistaken, to glorify him?
I know lots of people will bring up the "it's your own personel conviction" thing in circumstances such as this, but I think we need to keep in mind that we need God's influence in our personel convictions.
My "personel conviction" let's me listen to Drop Dead, Gorgeous and their album about violently killing people(even thought there is a "moral" that a killer can be someone you trust the most).
My personel conviction let's me bad mouth people I don't like, or hurt someone I don't like, but am I letting God be an influence in my convictions?

I think you're putting too much stock in this one person's specific opinion and experience. What of the many other devoted, wise Christians who don't have a problem listening to secular music? Is God not working in them?