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View Poll Results: Should you listen to secular music?
It's not really a big deal 155 64.58%
No, you should not listen to secular music 44 18.33%
You should listen to Secular Music 41 17.08%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 07-27-2002, 09:27 AM   #166
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I was just wondering if ya'll could throw out some scriptures to back up what you're debating. I haven't read the whole "message board" or whatever, but I did see some scriptures backing up "Secular Music is bad," but after two or three pages, I didn't see any people saying "Secular Music is okay" backing up their thoughts with scriptures. I personally listen to only Christian music b/c every time I listen to secular, it's like God is convicting me about it. I'm not saying other people can't listen to secular, but I've found that if I want to truly live for God, it takes my all and everything......music included.
I know, I'm asking for scriptures and I'm not providing any myself, but I just thought I'd give you a brief on where I stand in the whole situation.
-Ellen

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Unread 07-27-2002, 11:19 AM   #167
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Re: re:this

Quote:
Originally posted by XGodsmyAsylumX


yes in a way...what i mean is by how they act not what they listen to...cuz some of them are just like potty mouthed kids and stuff and i guess i need to get to know em more before i pass judgement but its just how they seem
question.....y do u have anarchy symbols for a backround on the bio section of you web site

and i think we have the FREE WILL to listen to what ever u want and not get effected by it
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Unread 07-27-2002, 11:28 AM   #168
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Ellen - all of the Scripture that was posted was shown to be irrelevant, on the anti-secular side that is. You'd do best to read the whole thing, really, I'm pretty sure Adam (the philosopher) and R2D2 were quoting from the good book.
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Unread 07-27-2002, 05:06 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Ellen - all of the Scripture that was posted was shown to be irrelevant, on the anti-secular side that is. You'd do best to read the whole thing, really, I'm pretty sure Adam (the philosopher) and R2D2 were quoting from the good book.
Good book? How about the great book?

Yes Ellen, I'd say read the whole thing. Very good counter-arguments for the narrow-minded approach to secular music.
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Unread 07-27-2002, 05:19 PM   #170
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Re: Re: re:this

Quote:
Originally posted by led_zepplin
question.....y do u have anarchy symbols for a backround on the bio section of you web site
If that is a question then I would suggest a question mark.
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Unread 07-27-2002, 06:09 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by Livin4God21
I was just wondering if ya'll could throw out some scriptures to back up what you're debating. I haven't read the whole "message board" or whatever, but I did see some scriptures backing up "Secular Music is bad," but after two or three pages, I didn't see any people saying "Secular Music is okay" backing up their thoughts with scriptures. I personally listen to only Christian music b/c every time I listen to secular, it's like God is convicting me about it. I'm not saying other people can't listen to secular, but I've found that if I want to truly live for God, it takes my all and everything......music included.
I know, I'm asking for scriptures and I'm not providing any myself, but I just thought I'd give you a brief on where I stand in the whole situation.
-Ellen
You need to remember.....All the scriptures gave could be interpeted different ways.....The main argument against secular music is that we are to seperate ourselves from the world. However, the Bible never made a specific request of not listening to certian music......Don't you think they had secular music back then? Im certain they did...

One of my arguments for listening to secular music is it improves me playing my instrument of choice (IE guitar) due to the fact there are more genres out there than Christian music, because of it, I use the music I listen to (secular music) to glorify God...Is there anything wrong with turning "bad" music into good music to glorify God?

Of course, I do have my limits, whenever my spirit tells me to listen to certain music, I don't listen to it.....However, it can be different for each of us, some might not be able to listen to secular music, and I know some that can't even listen to certain Christian music like rap, or hard rock and heavy metal. We all need make sure we don't let our brother stumble by what we listen to. However, I think it's a good thing if you can listen to secular music and not be subverted by it.
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Unread 07-27-2002, 06:42 PM   #172
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About a year ago, I attended a worship seminar hosted by Darrell Evans. A member of the Albuquerque worship leaders network mentioned that he looked to musicians such as Darrell and asked Darrell who he looked to, and Darrell replied that some of his main influences were the Edge from U2 and also the E-Street Band (Springsteens band in case you didn't know). Now, just for discussion's sake, does this statement make Mr. Evans' witness and music compromised? Personally I don't think it does, I think that there is some "secular music" that we as believers should absolutely stay away from and personally, I would rather listen to music in which our Lord is glorified, and I don't purchase many secular CDs, but I am confident in my Lord and in my relationship with Him to know that if I happen to listen to a song or a dozen on secular radio, that it's not going to compel me to revert to the ways of the world. I am a bass player and admittedly, I really enjoy the work of "secular" artists such as Jaco Pastorius, Stanley Clarke and many other bass virtuosos. If you know anything about Jaco, you'll know that he was an alcoholic, quite mentally unstable and led a self destructive lifestyle which ultimately led to his death. His bass compositions, however are among the most creative, beautiful and original ever. Here's the attitude I take about this man and his music, if I am listening to or attempting to play along with his music, my concentration and focus is on the music and what makes it work, I am not coveting his lifestyle or anything about him as a person. I'm taking cues from his music and using it to enhance my own style. Now I realize that this might not apply as much as other types of secular music since his music doesn't have lyrics so there's nothing in that realm for me to ponder but I think that it is relevant nonetheless. Now if I'm spending more time listening and trying to emulate the techniques of Jaco, than I am reading my bible, singing praises to Jesus or praying, well that's definitely a problem. I'm not trying to say that it is ok to listen to a little marilyn manson so long as I am studying scripture and praying, quite the contrary; as I stated before, there is some secular music that we need to avoid completely.

My point is, I don't believe that everything diplayed outside of the "Christian" section of the music store is going to cause me or you to fall. Just as I don't believe that everything within said section necessarily glories the Lord simply by it's placement there. I do believe that priorities should be assigned to the aspects of our lives and that the number one spot on that list should always be Jesus.

God bless......

eli
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Unread 08-07-2002, 08:37 PM   #173
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I've read most, if not all of the posts in this thread. Do you realise that if you go to the printable page, with all the posts on one page, there's 88 pages of this stuff?

First of all, something that I've heard many of you say, but I'm not certain those who oppose secular music are hearing you say. This is a matter of individual discretion. There are those who can listen to secular things without their faith being comprimised. Others can't. Those whose faith is stronger should be prepared to make allowances for the weaker faith of their brothers. That means that if my listening to secular music will lead my weaker brother, or even a lost person, think that the things it may be endorsing are ok, then I shouldn't listen to it in front of them. If God convicts me not to listen to secular music, it would be unwise of me to continue listening. We must each follow the Spirit's leading in everything we do, including choosing what music we listen to. The Spirit won't contradict Scripture, nor will Scripture contradict what the Spirit says; if I doubt my conscience, then I need to prayerfully seek God's wisdom from Scripture.

However, just because you yourself cannot listen to secular music without stumbling doesn't mean that no one can. Simply because something is beyond the scope of your understanding doesn't immediately negate any good that could come from it. If I, as a believer with a stronger faith than what you seem to posess, am aware that my choices are adversely effecting your faith, then Paul says I have a responsibility to abstain from those things. He does not say that they are inherently wrong, but that they should be avoided for the effect they have on my brother. Just because you aren't comfortable with something does not automatically make it wrong or sinful, especially, when the Scriptures are explicit about it.

Earlier, someone quoted from Paul's sermon on the unknown God of Athens. He took something that had a secular, possibly demonic origen, and used it to glorify God and point to our Eternal creator. In this, I see that we can use things that were intended for evil to glorify God. I see secular music in the same light.

Now, I agree, not all secular music is worth listening to. Musically, a lot that seems to be coming out lately is chintzy garbage, but that's an issue of quality and depth, not message. There are also many songs and many artists who have a serious problem with their messages. I choose not to listen to rap or hiphop because nearly everythign I've heard in the genre is denigrating to women in specific and humanity in general. I see no redeeming value in shouting about killing and raping people.

However, just because a song is defined as "secular" does not necessarily mean that it is bad, or evil, or demonic. secular simply means "dealing with the world". If we define music as secular based on the spiritual status of the artist, we might lose some good works by Christian groups (did you know Keith Green was still lost when he wrote and first began performing "The Prodigal Son Suite" and performing "The Easter Song"?). If we define it by the message, then certain love songs get pitched, including the Book of Esther...and some songs that would otherwise be considered secular might get included by a fluke...such as "The Greatest Love of All", sung by Whitney Houston. What about intent of the heart? Same problem. My husband defines it as any music written without the intent of worship, Christian education, or evabgelism. That broadens the field remarkably...and I wonder how many "Christian Groups" fall under that banner? (Was Sixpence None The Richer's "Kiss Me" worship, educational, or evangelical? Are they a secular or Christian group?)

So, since secular is so wide a net, then must we define it all as necessarily evil? Does listening to it mean that we "love the world"? Does it mean that we hate God? No. No one has yet demonstrated to me that secular music is, in its very nature, evil. No one has given us any scripture references that define secular music or define it as evil. True, there has been a demonstration that loving the world is bad and displeasing to the Father, but nothing to clearly demonstrate that secular music necessarily is evil.

Secular music includes things you think of as innocent. What about "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" or "Happy Birthday" (aptly pointed out numerous times by others)? What about fairy tales, nursery rhymes, or children's games? If secular music truly is evil, then it is evil in all its forms, not just the demonic or occultic.

As to the question of the purpose even "bad" secular music can have in the life of a believer. First of all, I can appreciate the arguments made by those for understanding the culture of those to whom we are called to minister. Can we answer their questions if we've never thought about them before? What do we say to the teenager who never really liked his parents because of the parent's drinking problems, who now finds himself without parents because they were killed in an accident last night? If we've always been sheltered in our own world, never contemplated questions like this, what answer do we offer them that doesn't sound like empty sunday school platitudes? How do we answer their heart's pain-filled cry if we can't begin to imagine the heart from which it rises? However, if we listen to their music, we can hear the anguish in their seeking voices. We can hear the messages they identify with, and the Father can prepare the answers he has for them within us. Secular music can serve to help equip us in our ministry to a lost and seeking world.

But, I must again remind you, that if you are convicted about listening to this music, by all means, don't. If you fear it as a stumbling block, then quickly and without hestitation, turn your back on it. However, you need not assume that our faith is weaker for listening to it.
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Unread 08-07-2002, 10:08 PM   #174
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HJackson, well said! You pretty much summed up all my thoughts on this topic very eloquently. I agree with what you said whole heartedly.
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Unread 08-08-2002, 04:02 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by mNighthawk007
I'm a hard rock fan, and I've personally decided to give up secular music altogether. (except Creed, those guys rock!) Mainly because it's really hard to find decent (secular) rock music that's not all about death or drugs. For example, Incubus, on the surface seems like a decent band. But then, after listening to "Wish You Were Here" and "Warning" over and over, you start thinking to yourself, these guys are awesome, and when you finally do hear the cursing in thier songs, or find out what thier name means, it's too late. You're hooked.
I know what you mean about Incubus, but if you don't listen to anything before "Morning View" then you're fine.
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Unread 08-08-2002, 04:06 PM   #176
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ya morning view is fine... no cursing or anything...
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Unread 08-08-2002, 04:14 PM   #177
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and good music, too
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Unread 08-08-2002, 05:22 PM   #178
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i think it most certainly is a personal conviction on whether or not you should give secular music up all together, b/c we have some christian brothers and sisters out their under secular labels who are writing songs for Christ (ex. Lifehouse and POD). they need support just like anyone else.
Whenit comes down to stuff like that, you have to be able to discern what "Christian music" is. I love LH and POD. Just b/c they are on a sec label does not make them secular. 12 Stones (The guy in my avatar is their lead singer) is on Wind-Up Records, and they are one of my favorite bands.
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Unread 08-08-2002, 11:46 PM   #179
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I second that. That was great use of rhetoric and logic.
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Unread 08-09-2002, 01:31 AM   #180
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Lightbulb Secular Music

I also have struggled with the whole Secular V Spiritual Music deal and wether it's the Music or the Lyrics or the Artist that makes it "right or wrong"

Easy rule to use for your Secular/Spiritual Music:

Q: Would you play the Song if Jesus was standing in your Lounge room with you?

Kinda makes it a bit clearer doesn't it.

And remember He said "And Lo I am with you always, even to the ends of the Earth!!

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