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View Poll Results: Should you listen to secular music?
It's not really a big deal 155 64.58%
No, you should not listen to secular music 44 18.33%
You should listen to Secular Music 41 17.08%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:06 AM   #1576
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For instance, Strauss' "Thus Spoke Zarastrutha" - you may know it as the theme song to "2001 Space Odyssy".

Strauss wrote the symphony after a book by Nietzsche. Every movement of the symphony is named after a section in the book. You don't need words to the symphony to know what it is about - just read the book.

Based on that, I had to decide - do I lsten to this symphony anymore or not?

Each of us hasd to make that call on our own, based on what we know and our own personal relationship with Christ.

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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:10 AM   #1577
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"Descriptions aren't needed. They are secondary to the fact. The simple fact, regardless of whether you want to think about it or not, was that they did have an affair which involved sex. People went to war and killed which involved murder. People sacrificed other people, which is also murder. The idea of having an affair is a description in itself."


DING SING DING - We have a winner!

So how can you compare Pulp Fiction with ANYTHING in hte Bible? I don't have to read the descriptions of the sin to know what happened or to learn what God intended me to learn from the incident in the Bible. I also don't need to hear and see every little detail in a movie like Pulp Fiction just to get a moral lesson ion the end. And what sense does it make to watch immorality portrayed to learn morallity? I need to rape a girl or see one raped in order to know it's wrong? That makes no sense
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:10 AM   #1578
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Strauss wrote the symphony after a book by Nietzsche. Every movement of the symphony is named after a section in the book. You don't need words to the symphony to know what it is about - just read the book.
I am currently minoring in philosophy in my scholarly education. I have read Nietzche, and do not see him as the self-professed anti-christ that he, as well as just about every Christian I've ever met, painted him as. I believe philosophy and religion, and Christianity can fall into religion here, can balance one another quite beautifully. If anything Nietzche's writings have helped me to think more about my relationship with Christ than hurt it. Being closed minded to anything that isn't Christianity is not going to make you an intelligent, well-rounded individual. It will just make you borderline legalism.

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Each of us hasd to make that call on our own, based on what we know and our own personal relationship with Christ.
I am taking that as a holier-than-thou statement and from now on disregard anything you say due to the fact you are now using personal attacks rather than intelligent arguement.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:12 AM   #1579
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Originally Posted by BannerMan
"Porn isn't wrong in itself" - What Bible do you have? It's definately not the same one I read.
There were plenty of paintings of naked bodies back when the Bible was written. I have never seen scripture that says that these are inherently wrong. If there is some I would like to see it. I doubt there is a single person on the earth would could watch porn and not lust, but that doesn't make porn itself wrong. Yes, the world would be a better place without it and no, no one should watch it.
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"Also, last I heard, humans make porn, not Satan." So man is totally devoid of influence from Satan?
Yeah, because that is totally what I posted.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:15 AM   #1580
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So how can you compare Pulp Fiction with ANYTHING in hte Bible? I don't have to read the descriptions of the sin to know what happened or to learn what God intended me to learn from the incident in the Bible. I also don't need to hear and see every little detail in a movie like Pulp Fiction just to get a moral lesson ion the end. And what sense does it make to watch immorality portrayed to learn morallity? I need to rape a girl or see one raped in order to know it's wrong? That makes no sense
You already are thinking what happened. You know rape is wrong because you can invision what rape is. If you did not know what rape was, or what happens when one is raped, you wouldn't know that is was wrong. You wouldn't even know what it was. Unless you have the imagination of a food processor, the things which happen in the Bible should paint graphic pictures in your mind. David had sex, sex with a woman who he was not married to, and it went on far enough to produce a baby. It wasn't a kiss on the cheek. It was graphic, it was sexual, it was immoral.

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And what sense does it make to watch immorality portrayed to learn morallity?
You read it in the bible, which is a sensory response. It's the same thing. If you are not exposed to it, you cannot know it is bad.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:18 AM   #1581
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Judges 19:25
But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.

I don't know about you, but that paints a pretty graphic picture in my mind.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:21 AM   #1582
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Holier-Than-Thou attitude? Because my standards are different that makes me holier than thou?

Let's see - you've called me closed minded and ignorant, your "Just because you aren't familiar with the aestethetics" post was definately trying to build me up.

Point is, I'm not trying to tell you what is right or wrong - I was answering a question for someone else. I laid out what I believe and why - take it or leave it. But I have not been telling you what to watch or listen to - yet you found it in your heart to tell me I was ignorant for not watching a movie you liked.

And I'm Holier-Than-Thou?
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:22 AM   #1583
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I think his point was that you judged Pulp Fiction after watching a mere 10 minutes of it.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:27 AM   #1584
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It does paint a pretty graphic picture - but does that mean it's ok for me to make a movie and show the rape step for step?

In the movie of discussion and in porn you are not talking about a scene where they go off into the bedroom and close the door and then you go to the next scene the next morning. Your talking about showing every little detail or as much as you can get away with and keep your rating. And in the case of porn especially, your showing the act with the intention to bring about lust.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:28 AM   #1585
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Let's see - you've called me closed minded and ignorant, your "Just because you aren't familiar with the aestethetics" post was definately trying to build me up.
I do apologize if you took them as insults, but they were not directed towards you. They were statements discussing my feelings towards the idea. There was no "you are" or "I consider you to be" in front of my statements. I honestly did not mean to demean you in any such way. If I did, I apologize and wish to clear up that no harm was meant.

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yet you found it in your heart to tell me I was ignorant for not watching a movie you liked.
Frankly, I don't think Pulp Fiction is that great of a movie. It has it's moments but isn't a favorite of mine. I brought it up due to its popularity with people here, as well as for its themes. Do not think I'm trying to make you fall in love with the film, because I'm not. Tarintino is a decent director, but not my taste, subjectively speaking.

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But I have not been telling you what to watch or listen to
Then why have you debated with me for the better part of an hour? You are evidently trying to convince me of something. I am trying to convince you of something: that sin has to exist for it to be wrong. If there was no knowledge of sin, you wouldn't know you were taking part in it. If you turn your head at the slightest notion of something that isn't Christian, you and not living a realistic live. That is all.

I do believe I shall stop my statements as this point so as not to continue to possibly create any sense of hardship. I'm not a bad guy; really I'm not.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:34 AM   #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BannerMan
It does paint a pretty graphic picture - but does that mean it's ok for me to make a movie and show the rape step for step?
Unwise maybe, but not necessarily wrong.

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In the movie of discussion and in porn you are not talking about a scene where they go off into the bedroom and close the door and then you go to the next scene the next morning. Your talking about showing every little detail or as much as you can get away with and keep your rating. And in the case of porn especially, your showing the act with the intention to bring about lust.
Which is why no one should pornography. Because it causes lust.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:34 AM   #1587
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Yes I judged it - because I don't want or need to see it. What I saw contradicts my beliefs and to me that would be sin. So I get condemned because I feel something is wrong for me?

I gave scripture that backs my belief and how I test music and movies? Where's your scripture that say's porn is right? Where's the scripture that backs these claims?
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:39 AM   #1588
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I've not been trying to debate you - I was asked a question and I answered. The answer was challenged and so I backed it up. I'm not trying to convince anyone - The question in the beginning was is Ozzy Right or Wrong so I gave the guy the scripture and my belief on how I determine what I listen to and watch and what I don't. It is up to each individual to determine what is right and wrong in his own life and his own relationship with Christ. The Bible say's "work out YOUR relationship" that's not holier-than-thou. It's simply staing that what is right for one may not be right for another.

My example will follow in the next post.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:39 AM   #1589
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So I get condemned because I feel something is wrong for me?
I shall end this evening with questioning this. If you feel it is wrong for you, fine. I haven't a problem with that. I do, however, have a problem when you try to tell other people how you feel and to reenact it.

I could frankly care less whether you liked Pulp Fiction, but that doesn't mean you should write it off as garbage and a sin. It has influenced by spiritual walk, which means it was good for me. You can tell me it's bad for you, but don't make a generalization on my populus.

You can continue your actions. I would ask, however, that you would not debate with me in hopes of convincing me that certain things that are bad for you are bad for me. It's like you said: it's your beliefs.
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Unread 11-16-2005, 12:41 AM   #1590
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Yes I judged it - because I don't want or need to see it. What I saw contradicts my beliefs and to me that would be sin. So I get condemned because I feel something is wrong for me?
I don't believe anyone condemned you. Your post said that you judged Pulp Fiction as a film with no redeeming qualities after 10 minutes. That seems to me to be a rather ignorant judgement. Sure, you could watch it for 10 minutes and then decide that you don't want to see any more of it, but I don't think saying that it has no redeeming qualities after 10 minutes of viewing is a good idea.

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I gave scripture that backs my belief and how I test music and movies? Where's your scripture that say's porn is right? Where's the scripture that backs these claims?
Where did I say that porn is right? The whole basis of what I am saying is that there is nothing in the bible to say that looking at naked people is wrong. There is, however, plenty to say that lust is wrong.
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