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View Poll Results: Should you listen to secular music?
It's not really a big deal 155 64.58%
No, you should not listen to secular music 44 18.33%
You should listen to Secular Music 41 17.08%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 07-04-2002, 06:38 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mrstickball
I said Kirk was ONE of the best.....I never said he was the best
I don't mean to burst your bubble, and I have no problem with him being one of your influences (he's not one of mine, he only solos out of the E minor pentatonic scale...), but Kirk is like Lars as far as talent: He gets the job done. He's a great guitarist, better than any mainstream nu-metal band or what have you, but in the metal/progressive metal/real guitar world, he's at the bottom.

James is the one from Metallica that helped push my decision to write songs - he's the one that writes all of Met's songs (Kirk only does solos, and even James does some of those)...

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<table><tr><td><IMG SRC="http://www.opeth.com/various/images/promo99/tistel.jpg" WIDTH="263" HEIGHT="194"></td><td><font size=1>Well I threw you the obvious,
Just to see if there's more behind the
Eyes of a fallen angel,
Eyes of a tragedy...

A-ramble on, and now's the time, the time is now
Sing my song, I'm goin' 'round the world, I gotta find my girl
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Ramble on, gotta find the queen of all my dreams...

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Unread 07-04-2002, 07:03 PM   #137
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What I define basic heavy metal as : lyrics about insanity, hate and basic dark parts of life. Did I mention anything about it not being poetic or not? I guess your just assuming what I think, aren't you? I am entitled to my ideas and opinions about music...Just like you are. Please give don't jump all over someone that thinks that Kirk is a great guitarist just even though his solo's are played on the same scale. I go more for origionality than technical mastery. For the early 80s, I really haven't found a good guitarist like Kirk + Hetfield did.


My gosh, I am just stating my OPINION. You obviously have a different opinion that I do.....You really shouldn't attack me saying my statments are ignorant, I know that Kirk isn't insane versus certian other guitarists, but I prefer old school metal. The people I compare him to are guitarists of the 70s and 80s....And I personally think he was a great guitarist back then and opened up thrash metal..........Thats just my opinion.
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Last edited by Mrstickball; 07-04-2002 at 07:07 PM.
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Unread 07-04-2002, 07:29 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mrstickball
What I define basic heavy metal as : lyrics about insanity, hate and basic dark parts of life. Did I mention anything about it not being poetic or not? I guess your just assuming what I think, aren't you? I am entitled to my ideas and opinions about music...Just like you are. Please give don't jump all over someone that thinks that Kirk is a great guitarist just even though his solo's are played on the same scale. I go more for origionality than technical mastery. For the early 80s, I really haven't found a good guitarist like Kirk + Hetfield did.
Originality means not soloing out of the same scale all the time...I love 'old school' metal, and just about every 'old school' metal band had a better lead guitarist than Metallica.


Quote:
My gosh, I am just stating my OPINION. You obviously have a different opinion that I do.....You really shouldn't attack me saying my statments are ignorant, I know that Kirk isn't insane versus certian other guitarists, but I prefer old school metal. The people I compare him to are guitarists of the 70s and 80s....And I personally think he was a great guitarist back then and opened up thrash metal..........Thats just my opinion.
Kirk is good versus certain other guitarists, but you prefer old school metal? Geeze, half the guitarists I listed were in 'old school' metal bands. And they are all from the 70's/80's...
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<table><tr><td><IMG SRC="http://www.opeth.com/various/images/promo99/tistel.jpg" WIDTH="263" HEIGHT="194"></td><td><font size=1>Well I threw you the obvious,
Just to see if there's more behind the
Eyes of a fallen angel,
Eyes of a tragedy...

A-ramble on, and now's the time, the time is now
Sing my song, I'm goin' 'round the world, I gotta find my girl
On my way, I've been this way ten years to the day
Ramble on, gotta find the queen of all my dreams...

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Unread 07-04-2002, 07:36 PM   #139
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a secular singer can let his light shine among all men cuz see if he is a christian and if not ashamed to show that he is he can play positive secular music (no bad language, sex , drugs etc.) then he can set an example and if he or she gets other people on fire for christ then that will just mean more and more people to be saved and then they can set an example aslo to bring more people into the kingdom of GOD.
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Unread 07-05-2002, 09:36 AM   #140
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i think it most certainly is a personal conviction on whether or not you should give secular music up all together, b/c we have some christian brothers and sisters out their under secular labels who are writing songs for Christ (ex. Lifehouse and POD). they need support just like anyone else. it is important however to discern whether or not what is coming into your body is harmful. it is true that the verse tells what comes out of our body makes us sin, but what comes out of our body is a direct result of what came in. so be careful you aren't being brought down with the music you listen to. strive for holiness. peace, dudes.

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Unread 07-05-2002, 05:18 PM   #141
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this thread isn't the place to discuss the skill of putting together solos. Take it outside gentlemen.
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Unread 07-08-2002, 09:35 AM   #142
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I have added another option to the thread, "You should listen to secular music." I support this notion in much of what I have said
in this thread. In addition, I believe everything in the Christian
faith is a big deal, as we are to glorify God in all aspects of life.

In the Christian faith, analysis must begin at every point in examining the unbelieving worldview, and beauty and also truth must be pursued everywhere where God has allowed his rays of common grace to shine through. We cannot be ignorant of the world in which we live, and more importantly, we cannot be ignorant of the ideas that impact and affect our world through music. We cannot be content with establishing our own little sphere of "Christian music" while we watch "secular" music be dominated by unbelieving thought. We cannnot be content with soley writing about the gospel and salvation when we are called to take dominion over all areas of life. We cannot be content with settling for a mere "imitation" of secular musicians or emphasize the music over words. Both are necessary ingredients to good songwriting, and it is an unbiblical notion to think that one glorifies God than another (because both equally glorify God). We are to glean the insights that other secular musician's have developed, and appreciate the gifts that God has given them. Thus, in a nutshell, secular music should be listened to.
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Unread 07-08-2002, 11:12 AM   #143
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I disagree. I think that musicians should listen to it if it will help their playing. I dont think people should listen to it if it will cause them to fall or if it is simply not beneficial. It is definitely good to listen to it to help you be aware of the emphasis of pop culture, but if desired, there are other ways to find this out.

Therefore, some should listen to it (if it is beneficial) and some shouldnt (if it is not). THe argument then switches to who and how it is beneficial to.
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Unread 07-08-2002, 12:06 PM   #144
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I disagree. I think that musicians should listen to it if it will help their playing. I dont think people should listen to it if it will cause them to fall or if it is simply not beneficial. It is definitely good to listen to it to help you be aware of the emphasis of pop culture, but if desired, there are other ways to find this out.
Notice the reasons I gave for listening to secular music. None of them were, "it causes you to fall" or "it is simply not beneficial." Obviously I don't believe you should embrace the presuppositions of unblieving musical thought. I made that clear in my post. In addition, I said we should appreciate secular music where we can evidence God's common grace. Thus, I imply that not all secular music does this. I also emphasized the fact that lyrical truth is just as important as musical beauty, and that one is not over the other. I don't see the logic in saying, "Well, I am going to listen to Secular Music because hopefully it will benefit my playing." Sure, this is an important point, but it isn't the only one. We can appreciate Secular Music for the beauty of the music itself, as an art, and realize that God gives gifts to even secular musicians.

To avoid confusion, however, let me elucidate my point a bit more clearly; when I say that Christians should listen to secular music, I do not mean to imply that 6-year old kids or other immature Christians should listen to it. Otherwise, they are susceptible to the wiles of the wicked and may succumb to their message. I am talking about mature Christians who have a desire to glorify God in every aspect of their lives and in dominating culture for Christ. It is foolish to be unfamiliar with your enemy in the area of secular music; thus, I find it necessary for one to examine their worldviews and cast them down to the knowledge of Christ. Sure their are other ways to find this out, but I believe that so much of the postmodern worldview is communicated through music that it is vital that one should pay attention to it. I fully realize that the postmodern worldview has influenced all aspects of life, and I believe it comes out very strongly in secular music.
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Last edited by The Idiot; 07-09-2002 at 09:29 PM.
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Unread 07-10-2002, 03:43 PM   #145
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does it realy matter i mean if u r a die hard christian then nothing should stop u for ur belives
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Unread 07-10-2002, 04:05 PM   #146
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does it realy matter i mean if u r a die hard christian then nothing should stop u for ur belives
Yeah, it really does matter. The Bible tells us that we should glorify God in all aspects of life. Do everything to the glory of God.
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Unread 07-10-2002, 09:17 PM   #147
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Adam, I wholeheartedly agree with your post about why we should listen to secular music (not just that it's permissible for a Christian to do so). I think there's an inherrant danger to closing ourselves off into a "Christian bubble" where we're surrounded only by media/music/people who believe like we do. It has a tendency to dull us and make us dogmatic. We aren't challenged to "work out our faith with fear and trembling" as scripture tells us to do. Everything around us tends to have the tendency to tell us exactly what we want to hear rather than what we need to hear when we live in such a Christian bubble. I really think it's a must for any Christian artist (music, visual, theater or otherwise) to examine and get a good grasp on the art of the world. Discernment is of course necessary, but I think this is really important.

Looking at great Christian thinkers and writers through the ages, you see examples of them having a thorough understanding of secular art and philosophy, even from the beginning. For example, it's pretty apparent from the writings of both the Apostle Paul and St. Augustine that they were both well read and influenced by Plato.
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Unread 07-11-2002, 10:13 AM   #148
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well i listen to led zepplin and other non christian stuff that is deffanently not christian and im a die hard christian it all depends on how strong you faith is in christ
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Unread 07-11-2002, 11:30 AM   #149
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Adam, I wholeheartedly agree with your post about why we should listen to secular music (not just that it's permissible for a Christian to do so). I think there's an inherrant danger to closing ourselves off into a "Christian bubble" where we're surrounded only by media/music/people who believe like we do. It has a tendency to dull us and make us dogmatic. We aren't challenged to "work out our faith with fear and trembling" as scripture tells us to do. Everything around us tends to have the tendency to tell us exactly what we want to hear rather than what we need to hear when we live in such a Christian bubble. I really think it's a must for any Christian artist (music, visual, theater or otherwise) to examine and get a good grasp on the art of the world. Discernment is of course necessary, but I think this is really important.
Exactly. I think it is a necessary prerequisite to being salt and light to the world.

Quote:
Looking at great Christian thinkers and writers through the ages, you see examples of them having a thorough understanding of secular art and philosophy, even from the beginning. For example, it's pretty apparent from the writings of both the Apostle Paul and St. Augustine that they were both well read and influenced by Plato.
Again, I agree. These are both two spheres that have been "given over to the devil" by most modern-day Christians. What we need to realize instead is that they are gifts from God and to neglect them or any development within those spheres even in secular circles is failing to establish dominion over God's Creation.
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Unread 07-13-2002, 09:48 AM   #150
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Ooooh, I nearly disagreed with you there Adam, but you rescued it with the second post. Which addressed all the points I was going to disagree with. So carry on.
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