[bobthecockroach]

Except you don't offer that same forgiving attitude to Middle East countries. The entire "terrorist" discussion is full of double standards. The United States has certainly killed more civilians than any "terrorist" country. Probably the only countries to have killed more civilians are Germany and Russia (Hitler/Holocaust in Germany and political killings in Russia), yet hardly anyone is mad at them.

[legendary_chin]

yeah? who said that I didnt forgive them. justice still applies. if you want to apply justice to the US, then go for it.

[bobthecockroach]

No one DOES want to. That's precisely the point. Lots of people are all for bombing Iraq and Iran whether there are clear "terrorist" connections or not. The United States has killed millions of civilians in some of the cruelest ways imaginable, but no one really cares.

[legendary_chin]

I dont care because I think that we did that for a greater good, and it was most likely the best and faster thing to do to get people to stop, or to end a war...

[bobthecockroach]

You don't even know what we've done, so how can you possibly be so confident that it was for the greater good? Your blind faith in the United States is utterly disturbing.

Please, without consulting ANY reference, tell me why the Dresden firebombing was for the greater good. Hell, I'll be happy if you can even tell me where Dresden is, when the firebombing took place, and what firebombing is.

[JerryLove]

well seeing as how the terrorists are hiding with inocent people, that is not a fair question. when the terrorists attacked us all the people were innocent...

Really? There were no guilty people in the towers or the pentagon. no millitary personall, no one with any involvement in the US being in or interacting with the middle east?

and to the comment on them not being the same terrorists, it doesnt matter, they are still terrorist, and are evil, and so we are trying to stop them.

When Osama Bin Lauden wanted to overthrow the elected government in Afghanistan back in the 80s we supplied him with arms and training and intelligence. We wrote the book (literally, it's a CIA manual) on IUDs, targeting police and infrastructure, attacks against govenment officials, etc.

The US is a sponsor of terrorism.

When Iraq was invaded by Iran, (and that brual murdering dictator was our pal because he was selling us oil), it was Donald Rumsfield who sold Saddam chemical weapons and the US that told him to use them.

Tell me what the people living in Hiroshima did to the US that the people living in New York didn't do to Afghanistan.

[legendary_chin]

haha. this thread is getting funnier with each post. well japan attacked us on pearl harbor for no real reason.

[JerryLove]

Originally Posted by legendary_chin

haha. this thread is getting funnier with each post. well japan attacked us on pearl harbor for no real reason.

Actually: Japan attacked the US as part of its strategy for securing rights to reasources in the Pacific.

So then the 9/11 attacks were equally justified (relative to hiroshima) based on DECADES of US involvement in wars and opression throughout the middle east.

Two instances in specific: the US involvement in overthrowing the legetimate government of Afghanistan in the 1980s, and the continued US presence on the holy land of Saudi Arabia.

As a result of these millitary incursions, Al Quida attacked primarily civillian (but symbolicly important) targets (and the Pentagon would be decidedly millitary) to send a message... much like the one we sent when we attacched the primarily civillian target of Hiroshima.

[legendary_chin]

when we sent bombs to hiroshima did we not end the war against them?? we were not in war with the terrorist before the attack.

[PontiusPirate]

"I've learned to hate others
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's then we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side...

But now we got weapons
Of chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side."
--Straylight Run.

[Insane Drummer]

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

Probably the only countries to have killed more civilians are Germany and Russia (Hitler/Holocaust in Germany and political killings in Russia), yet hardly anyone is mad at them.

You forgot Japan in Manchuria during WWII.

[Ax]

Originally Posted by legendary_chin

when we sent bombs to hiroshima did we not end the war against them?? we were not in war with the terrorist before the attack.

Actually... if you read Jerry's posts we were... I remember in '99 Clinton bombed some allegedly al-Qaida factories in Afghanistan and killed hundreds of civilians. We've been secretly and covertly attacking parts of the middleast since the 60s. Get your facts straight.

[legendary_chin]

you guys all have to get your facts right and stop making up your own history, or how you wish it were. the US has not killed more innocent people than anyone else...

[Gecko of Doom]

Originally Posted by legendary_chin

you guys all have to get your facts right and stop making up your own history, or how you wish it were.

Did you even look up that Dresden firebombing? That actually happened. Clinton really did bomb suspected terrorist targets. Double-check before you accuse people of making up facts, please. It's fine if you disagree with the conclusions they draw from those facts, but please make an attempt to be informed before you start accusing people.

[jengoesup]

A point that you need to understand is, contrary to the good feelings you get in Social Studies class in school, the United States is NOT a perfect country. Remember the Tonkin incident...President Johnson lied and used it as an excuse to get us involved in the Vietnam War. There's a lot of controversy surrounding whether or not he lied, but they're pretty sure no second attack occurred, meaning he probably lied (read the article for details).

The United States has killed a lot of innocents in a lot of different incidents (heh), but I can't really say how many. Dresden is a perfect example of an attack on innocents.