Help finding an amp

Ax · 05-22-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsFan75

-Necessity - Playing at Church, Playing in the bedroom. Need a good practice amp that can also cut through the drums on Sunday. No miking, use a Direct box, so the amp will act as a monitor and preamp. Occasionally relay on volume along, but that will be in a solo setting.

Why no miking? I mean unless you're in a situation where you cannot have any stage volume or for some other reason can't mike it, then DI is a very bad idea. It sounds terrible when you use a line out... there is a serious loss of tone... Amps are designed to have a speaker load and for the speakers to be the final conveyor of tone. Line out is a tone killing option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspg70

Tube amps just sound better. You can get a Classic 30 for about 300, so about 100 more bucks.

Not entirely true... there are some very good sounding SS amps... I'm not a fan of Randall, especially when compared to a decent tube amp... but they don't sound terrible. My biggest thing with SS though is that they don't do OD or Distortion very well unless you have a real high-end pedal...

Good SS companies include:
Acoustic Control
Some Tech 21 lines...
and some high end Randalls...

It's sad though that more companies don't make good SS amps...

Ryan Freeland · 05-22-2007, 05:23 PM

When it comes to showing the true dynamics of your playing, the tube amp reigns supreme. The Pod XTL doesn't give me that. So that's why I love a tube amp for low gain stuff.

**nbfan** · 05-22-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXguitar

Why no miking? I mean unless you're in a situation where you cannot have any stage volume or for some other reason can't mike it, then DI is a very bad idea. It sounds terrible when you use a line out... there is a serious loss of tone... Amps are designed to have a speaker load and for the speakers to be the final conveyor of tone. Line out is a tone killing option.

Not entirely true... there are some very good sounding SS amps... I'm not a fan of Randall, especially when compared to a decent tube amp... but they don't sound terrible. My biggest thing with SS though is that they don't do OD or Distortion very well unless you have a real high-end pedal...

Good SS companies include:
Acoustic Control
Some Tech 21 lines...
and some high end Randalls...

It's sad though that more companies don't make good SS amps...

most of the high-end Randalls are hybrids, btw.

telecasting · 05-22-2007, 05:35 PM

I thought there was an amnesty on tube vs SS amps discussions. Its opinion based anyway.

I would side with AXguitar about micing an amp. Since I persuaded our soundguy to mic my amp (a poor one at that) my guitar sounds much better and I've had way more comments about my playing. I don't take that as the yardstick for better tone/playing/etc but I don't think its coincidence.

Why don't you talk to the sound techs at your church about the options you have before buying something. It might be that they are fine about micing. Maybe they don't want stage volume in which case you would be best with an amp and speaker modeller. Maybe they have an isolation cab that you can use. You never know.

RedsFan75 · 05-22-2007, 06:07 PM

Stage volume isn't the issue it's plenty loud there, we mainly use our amps as our monitors, and the sound guys want control. Last time, I used my bass amp but they first set me up with no monitors and I was full in the house and main stage monitors.

I really think it's a control issue...

We're still praying for them.

The other guitarist goes through a GNX300 and the DI box, with his monitor amp being a Peavey Chorus... He keeps suggesting I get a Peavey TransTube amp....

sabertooth181 · 05-22-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsFan75

He keeps suggesting I get a Peavey TransTube amp....

I haven't had good experiences with these. I would suggest tube, but even if you go with SS you can do better than that.

Major Tom · 05-22-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsFan75

Stage volume isn't the issue it's plenty loud there, we mainly use our amps as our monitors, and the sound guys want control. Last time, I used my bass amp but they first set me up with no monitors and I was full in the house and main stage monitors.

I really think it's a control issue...

We're still praying for them.

The other guitarist goes through a GNX300 and the DI box, with his monitor amp being a Peavey Chorus... He keeps suggesting I get a Peavey TransTube amp....

The sound guys will still have the exact same control whether you use a mic or some DI thing. Here's how I have approached it in the past. "my amp does not have a direct out..." I then show them my SM57 and the little short stand I use for it. "...this is what I use. If you don't have an extra cable for it, I have one." I'm not lying, my amps do not have a direct out, and even if they did there is absolutely no sense in using it when I have the superior solution in hand. For me, it is not an option; if I'm playing, I'll provide the sound guy a signal to use - at the end of a mic cable. I'm not trying to be a hard liner, but sometimes you have to stand your ground, especially when you are right, and they are wrong. If they are worried about other stuff bleeding into it, that really should not be a significant factor with a close mic on a loud amp.

Tube vs. SS or modeler. SS, modelers, distortion devices all mimic what a tube amp does. I think everyone will agree that some devices do that better than others. Some may argue that these mimicing devices are almost as good as, or even as good as the real thing. Maybe so. I do think that most would agree that modelers are so tweakable that it is just as easy (maybe easier) to get bad sounds as it is to get good ones. What I do is just use the real thing and have no doubts. And a clear conscience.

mt_spiffy · 05-23-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

If they are worried about other stuff bleeding into it, that really should not be a significant factor with a close mic on a loud amp.

I think their concern is more, your amp bleeding into other makes. Sometimes it's also room on stage. I undertstand, but I need my amp. Not only does it not sound right without it, but I cant count on the soundguy to give me enough of myself in my monitor. I've done live sessions where I couldnt hear myself at all-- that's terrible. I want my amp right by me if possible.

**thesteve** · 05-23-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_spiffy

I think their concern is more, your amp bleeding into other makes. Sometimes it's also room on stage. I undertstand, but I need my amp. Not only does it not sound right without it, but I cant count on the soundguy to give me enough of myself in my monitor. I've done live sessions where I couldnt hear myself at all-- that's terrible. I want my amp right by me if possible.

indeed. it became an issue or stage space and controllability at my church. There was simply not way to have everything running hot on stage (guitar, bass, drums) without making it very hard for the vocalists to hear out of their monitors.

That being said, if you're already going to have the amp on stage for your own monitoring, then definitely just throw a mic on there. You can still use the amp as a monitor, and send a much more natural signal to the soundman.

Ax · 05-23-2007, 03:22 PM

On every PA i've worked with you can cut the signal on each amp from the monitors if you want... So the amp is good for your own monitoring and you can cut the amp mic from the monitors so only the vocals come through.

**thesteve** · 05-23-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXguitar

On every PA i've worked with you can cut the signal on each amp from the monitors if you want... So the amp is good for your own monitoring and you can cut the amp mic from the monitors so only the vocals come through.

very true...though I didn't realize that was being questioned somewhere.