[cngp90]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Well then I should be divorced.

Well...

Here is the problem. Josh Harris was way off base in his book. I read it, and furthermore, I only ever dated one girl really. (2 if you want to count a really non romantic dating relationship where I was asked to date a girl to restore her faith in men as humans after her rape by a friend of hers. I took her out a few times as a friend)

I don't have the baggage he claims to have and I dated. I dated in defiance of my parents in fact.

You calling my experience a training ground for divorce is rather presumptuous. may I ask if you are married? I have a good marriage.

No, I am not married and have never dated, so you can't say that I have personal experience in this. However, I do believe that God gives his children godly wisdom "and I believe that I have the Spirit as well". I am very glad that you have a good marriage and will pray that it continues as such.
Notice that I went back on myself and said that not all dating is training for divorce. But the relationships you have before marriage will influence your marriage relationship. If you continually practice commitment in relationships and then breaking those commitments, it will be very difficult to break free from this pattern that you have set up for yourself. And it's not just with romantic relationships, it goes to every area of our lives.

Dating and courting are both methods of finding a mate. Idolizing one method is a form of social idolatry. Now one thing to consider. Is the method or the morality what makes it correct? I believe biblically you can use almost any method of finding a mate righteously in purity. Whether thats dating, courting, sparking, arranged marriage, buying a bride, etc.

All that is very true. Dating just sets you up for failure though. We should flee from temptations and things that might cause us to sin against God or another person, not try to make them work so that we can do what we want to do. Dating isn't always something that will bring temptation or sin, but if you look at the majority of dating relationships with teens, anyway, you will see the pain and hurt that it causes and the callousness it makes toward breaking commitments.

[Rainer.]

Dating doesn't practice break up, people going into dating with the mindset that they are going to break up is what practices break up. Dating or courtship or whathaveyou, it all involves an emotionally involved relationship. You can have emotionally involved relationships without even dating or courting or anything aside from being very close to someone else and having open communication channels with them. You don't need to go on a single date or court someone for any amount of time to develop an emotional involvement with someone. If the relationship breaks down, you will bear the emotional scars from that, but it's not because of dating, it's because of the very nature of relationships.

And that was the first thing I really thought was a bit rediculous when first reading Josh Harris's book. You just can't avoid bad relationships.

Alright, so teens are generally immature and get too emotionally involved with people that they can't possibly make a long term commitment to. That doesn't make courting more biblical than dating. That doesn't make dating someone that you can form a long term commitment with a bad idea. It's the attitudes of the people in the relationship, not what they happen to be doing, that will most affect their lives.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by cngp90

All that is very true. Dating just sets you up for failure though. We should flee from temptations and things that might cause us to sin against God or another person, not try to make them work so that we can do what we want to do. Dating isn't always something that will bring temptation or sin, but if you look at the majority of dating relationships with teens, anyway, you will see the pain and hurt that it causes and the callousness it makes toward breaking commitments.

You didn't answer the question. Is it the morality or the method that makes it correct? Granted, your answer seems to convey what you believe in regards to the question, though.

[AudioACanuck]

From my perspective, it's not dating or courtship that destroys most teen relationships, it's maturity. Kids don't know the commitment involved and just think it is fun and the thing to do. They get a crush, think it's love, and then things go downhill from there.

I think it's not about dating or courting or whatever you wanna call it, but about the maturity level and commitment both people have. I always thought that I would just be friends with everyone, and if I feel closer to a particular girl, I will aske her out. I'm not just gonna go around asking every girl in sight out though. I will make sure that I really do care for her and that the relationship can work.

My parents told me, if ya can't see yourself maried to a person in 5, 10, 15, or 20 years, dont' ask em out.

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

However, I do not see a number of breakups as necissarilly a bad thing.

Wha? This concerns me. I shouldn't even have to explain why.

From my perspective, it's not dating or courtship that destroys most teen relationships, it's maturity. Kids don't know the commitment involved and just think it is fun and the thing to do. They get a crush, think it's love, and then things go downhill from there.

This is a very very good point. But, If you're commited to not dating then you shouldn't have that problem yea? I hope to not have that problem while waiting untill I'm fairly sure that it's real...not just a crush.

But, I do think that dating compounds that problem. It tells teens that they can experiment with each other's hearts when they really don't know what they're getting into.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

Wha? This concerns me. I shouldn't even have to explain why.

Why is it really a bad thing? If one goes through a series of breakups in their relationships, then so long as the dating method is approached in a mature fashion (as anyone in here advocating dating or b the two being interchangeable is) the relationship was a success and determined what the two people involved were not indeed compatible for marriage.

This is a very very good point. But, If you're commited to not dating then you shouldn't have that problem yea? I hope to not have that problem while waiting untill I'm fairly sure that it's real...not just a crush.

Nay! This type of problem can still take place in a "courtship" setting. Crushes can last an extensively long time. Love from one person and not the other can last a long time. (My wife's parents are proof of that).

But, I do think that dating compounds that problem. It tells teens that they can experiment with each other's hearts when they really don't know what they're getting into.

And society's definiton of courtship places too much pressure on younger people. It seems to convey higher penalties and problems with people if they mess up in their "quest for purity". It's once again a problem with the morality. Not the method.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

Wha? This concerns me. I shouldn't even have to explain why.

Actually you should. Its not readily apparent always that a person is the right one to marry. If you find out early in the relationship that its not going to work... that is not a bad thing. Assuming you will find the right person on the first try is ludicrous. It leads to a trainwreck of disasters.

This is a very very good point. But, If you're commited to not dating then you shouldn't have that problem yea? I hope to not have that problem while waiting untill I'm fairly sure that it's real...not just a crush.

No, it just means you will be much more heavily emotionally invested and the breakup will be far more painful. I have watched this pattern a dozen times. Its actually far more devastating. I found out for example with one girl who I was considering dating after being close friends for several years, that it would not work.

But, I do think that dating compounds that problem. It tells teens that they can experiment with each other's hearts when they really don't know what they're getting into.

Dating doesn't. I guarantee you in any form of romantic relationship you will do this some. Frankly because human relationships are such that you have to experiment because you do not know everything about the other. Dating, courting, sparking, all carry a risk of backfiring in a break up. Arranged marriages or coercive marriages are the only ones that don't run this sort of risk. And they have their own potential minefields.

[kater]

Just So Yall Know I Am No Longer Reading Yalls Post.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by kater

Just So Yall Know I Am No Longer Reading Yalls Post.

why?

[kater]

yall are just so confusing

[cngp90]

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq

Actually you should. Its not readily apparent always that a person is the right one to marry. If you find out early in the relationship that its not going to work... that is not a bad thing. Assuming you will find the right person on the first try is ludicrous. It leads to a trainwreck of disasters.




No, it just means you will be much more heavily emotionally invested and the breakup will be far more painful. I have watched this pattern a dozen times. Its actually far more devastating. I found out for example with one girl who I was considering dating after being close friends for several years, that it would not work.



Dating doesn't. I guarantee you in any form of romantic relationship you will do this some. Frankly because human relationships are such that you have to experiment because you do not know everything about the other. Dating, courting, sparking, all carry a risk of backfiring in a break up. Arranged marriages or coercive marriages are the only ones that don't run this sort of risk. And they have their own potential minefields.

Oh Bill...

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by cngp90

Oh Bill...

could you try something other than condescension?

Might I remind you that I successfully navigated the minefield here? Let not him who puts on his armor boast as he who takes it off. What are your biblical reasons for what you are saying?

[Rainer.]

This is a very very good point. But, If you're commited to not dating then you shouldn't have that problem yea? I hope to not have that problem while waiting untill I'm fairly sure that it's real...not just a crush.

Even true love doesn't guarantee that a relationship will survive. You can for a very real relationship with someone with the complete intention of marriage without having the relationship actually survive to the point of marriage.

Not saying that your methods are bad, but they do carry the same or greater risk of painful results as dating.

[cngp90]

Originally Posted by Chris

And society's definiton of courtship places too much pressure on younger people. It seems to convey higher penalties and problems with people if they mess up in their "quest for purity". It's once again a problem with the morality. Not the method.

Just for the record, courtship doesn't place too much pressure on younger people cause it isn't for younger people. It's for people that are at an age and station where they could really think seriously of marriage.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by cngp90

All that is very true. Dating just sets you up for failure though. We should flee from temptations and things that might cause us to sin against God or another person, not try to make them work so that we can do what we want to do. Dating isn't always something that will bring temptation or sin, but if you look at the majority of dating relationships with teens, anyway, you will see the pain and hurt that it causes and the callousness it makes toward breaking commitments.

1) I'll agree that teenage relationships are normally fairly pointless and can have bad consequences. However, as many others have pointed out, the issue is their maturity, not "dating."

2) How does "dating" or "teenage relationships" make one callous towards breaking commitments? Isn't one of the big ideas of dating that it ISN'T a big commitment at first?