[Crandell]

i have a friend (who is not me!) who had sex with someone he isnt married to. she is having a baby now and i was wondering your opinions on whether or not you think they should get married. they are young.. only 18 ... and have been dating for about 10 months.. if that is influencial.

[Role Modlin]

They have obviously made a huge mistake.

Getting married may be a bigger mistake.

They do have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

[switchyourfoot]

Wow! That is not good.
If I were them i would get married. Baby's have to have a dad!

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by Mr. Role Modlin

They have obviously made a huge mistake.

Getting married may be a bigger mistake.

They do have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

I disagree. I know my opinion may be someone disregarded because I'm only 17...but I'll give it anyway.

First of all...is he a Christian? I'll give this from a prespective of him being a Christian. If he's not, then it may not be applicable.

I strongly believe that in a situation like this the guy screwed up and he's responsible for 2 human lives now. The mother and the baby. That means that they should get married. It will be hard either way, but I think they need to work through it together. Like switchyourfoot said, it's critical that a baby has a father if possible.

[MtlMom]

There isn't a simple answer to this, because we don't have all the information. Even if we did it wouldn't be simple. You can't unring a bell. Getting married won't make this "all better".

[anathema]

Originally Posted by MtlMom

There isn't a simple answer to this, because we don't have all the information. Even if we did it wouldn't be simple. You can't unring a bell. Getting married won't make this "all better".

agreed. Whats worse?

1. baby grows up without its father

2. baby grows up with 2 parents who dont like eachother

Option 1 gives the mother a chance to find someone who actually chooses and loves her and will 'become' the babies father.

Option 2 gives the kid a screwed up childhood, and a crappy view of marriage

I would choose option 1, even if it was my own daughter. 2 people who dislike eachother in a marriage (or are forcefully married) does far more harm.

[KFBobInsanesMom]

Originally Posted by anathema

agreed. Whats worse?

1. baby grows up without its father

2. baby grows up with 2 parents who dont like eachother

Option 1 gives the mother a chance to find someone who actually chooses and loves her and will 'become' the babies father.

Option 2 gives the kid a screwed up childhood, and a crappy view of marriage

I would choose option 1, even if it was my own daughter. 2 people who dislike eachother in a marriage (or are forcefully married) does far more harm.

I would hope these 2 people at least liked each other, considering they have been dating 10 months and conceived a baby.

I would say that ultimately they should marry. I don't really see how two people making some sacrifices in their lives for the sake of their child means that child will end up with a screwed up childhood and a crappy view of marriage.

[anathema]

Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

I would hope these 2 people at least liked each other, considering they have been dating 10 months and conceived a baby.

I would say that ultimately they should marry. I don't really see how two people making some sacrifices in their lives for the sake of their child means that child will end up with a screwed up childhood and a crappy view of marriage.

Yeah, tell that to my wife, or her sister, or her brother. I'm sure they would have rather had no father figure in their life rather than 2 parents who could barely be in the same room. (granted I missed the 10 months part, but still)

I still deal with my wife and her family issues, her sister who never wants to be married OR have children (shes 30), and her little brother who has never dated, never wants to be married or have kids.

Dont tell me it dosnt screw the kids up, they are far more perceptive than you give them credit for..

[Nate]

The lack of fathers has been shown time and time again to be one of the (if not the single) most pressing social issue of our time.

I strongly believe that a couple in such a situation should get married if it at all possible. They've acted as if they already were.

Furthermore, I believe that love is a choice as much as it is a response to someone's personality. You can choose to "like" someone. You can't, however, "choose" to have a father if yours decided that you weren't worth their time or sacrifice. This child has no choice concerning what its future will be. The couple that conceived it still has a choice.

It's also probably worth noting Deuteronomy 22:28-29 which says:

"If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

As well as the same law in Exodus 22:16-17 (which clearly allows the father to refuse):

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged to be married and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins."

Like it or not, there it is in the Bible, in black and white. Whether it refers to rape or consentual sex, the concept is pretty clear: If you sleep with an unbetrothed virgin, you're supposed to marry her unless her father refuses her to you.

This isn't like some of the other Mosaic laws that we tend to gloss over because they are fairly clearly dealing with things that had no purpose other than setting the Israelites apart from their pagans (I'm thinking of the laws against cutting the beard, etc), but is fairly clearly written just to prescribe proper moral behavior.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by anathema

agreed. Whats worse?

1. baby grows up without its father

2. baby grows up with 2 parents who dont like eachother

Option 1 gives the mother a chance to find someone who actually chooses and loves her and will 'become' the babies father.

Option 2 gives the kid a screwed up childhood, and a crappy view of marriage

I would choose option 1, even if it was my own daughter. 2 people who dislike eachother in a marriage (or are forcefully married) does far more harm.

Option 3: They don't get married and the father still takes care of the baby with the mother

Everyone seems to be assuming if they don't get married then the mother will raise the child and the father will leave town.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Sean

Option 3: They don't get married and the father still takes care of the baby with the mother

Option 3 is just a compromise for a couple that can't or won't choose to love each other or to sacrifice. It's still not the ideal situation, I don't think, and it's clearly not God's plan for child-rearing.

How about Option 4: Couple chooses to get married and chooses to love each other, and their child, sacrificially.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Nate

Option 3 is just a compromise for a couple that can't or won't choose to love each other or to sacrifice. It's still not the ideal situation, I don't think, and it's clearly not God's plan for child-rearing.

How about Option 4: Couple chooses to get married and chooses to love each other, and their child, sacrificially.

Obviously option 4 would be an ideal situation, but option 4 is hard enough to achieve even with a solid base with no complications. Obviously starting off either pregnent or with a child and the whole communitty staring at you judging you and waiting for your marriage to fail will make things more difficult. Also, without knowing more about the individuals its difficult to simply tell them "Get married and choose to love each other." Are they Christians? Are they atheists with no problem with divorce? Do they attend church because their parents forced them to? If they don't accept your view of love or if they don't work at it enough (which difficult under any circumstances) then things will turn into a big mess....and it turns into option 2.

[Nate]

I'm not sure what all of those contingencies have to do with the making of normative statements about what ought to happen. The question was "should" they get married (a normative question), not "can" they make it work (a practical consideration). As far as I can tell, from both a social and a theological standpoint, a couple in their situation "should" get married.

Obviously it will be their responsibility to make it work and it will be hard to do so, but that doesn't excuse them from trying.

[AudioACanuck]

I'd have to agre that they should get married. I don't know all the circumstances but in most cases like this it would be better for the parents to get married, unless there is no hope of them working things through. I know people who got pregnant before they were married, and their kids are fine and their relationship is a good one 20 years later.

But I'd just like to point out something Sean said that is really sad within the church

Obviously starting off either pregnent or with a child and the whole communitty staring at you judging you and waiting for your marriage to fail will make things more difficult

Why is it when someone makes a mistake does the church ultimately expect everything they do to fail as well? Like in this case, a lot of "church goers" would condemn them as terrible sinners right on the spot. And will expect them to have a terrible marriage and that the kids will be screwed up. They made a mistake, but they can still do the best they can with what they have.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by AudioACanuck

I don't know all the circumstances but in most cases like this it would be better for the parents to get married, unless there is no hope of them working things through.

What is your basis for saying "in most cases like this it woudl be better..."?

I know people who got pregnant before they were married, and their kids are fine and their relationship is a good one 20 years later.

And others can provide counter examples of people who got married and didn't make it.

Why is it when someone makes a mistake does the church ultimately expect everything they do to fail as well?

Well, its obviously not a good attitude to have, but in this case, it is a realistic one. Right now 50% of marriages end in divorce. From what I've read, the statistics aren't better for people in this situation. Is it right for people to expect them to fail? Probably not. Is it reasonable? Yeah it probably is.