[Adam B]

So, I've been trying to improve my singing lately - I decided I'd post another few clips of myself here, if anybody is interested in listening. I've got 2 clips of myself singing Starfield's "Son Of God" - the first time in A-flat(the original key) and the second in F. Any suggestions? What should I be focusing on? Should I work on the high notes or just forget about them and only sing low? Advice is welcome.

[presbystrat]

Getting better I think. You still need to work on the pitch and breath support. You also need to work on not closing off your vowels. They should have an open sound until you close them with a consonant. That might help with the straining I hear on the higher notes as well as some of the nasalness. You said in your last thread that you are getting some vocal lessons. What is your vocal coach teaching you? I highly recommend singing in Italian to learn to sing with pure open vowels. Keep working at it. There is a good voice there; it just needs some training.

[crazychu]

have you heard of josh turner? he's a bass country singer, and hes pretty awesome i might ad, listen to him

[Adam B]

About the breath support - I'm trying to work on that. Most of the time when I'm singing, I take really big breaths, but it's not really about taking massive breaths, is it? Could I be belting it out too hard and using up all my air too fast? I seem to have trouble really figuring out the correct technique. I definitely try to keep my throat open, but it's hard to keep relaxed when it gets really high.

Crazychu - I'm not really much of a country singer, but I'll see what I can find. The style I'm aiming for is something along the lines of United, Casting Crowns, Matt Redman, Delirious, etc. Anyone who's familiar with those styles hang around here? It sounds to me like they never use any head voice - do you think that's true, or not? Would using head voice/falsetto work well with their styles, or not? Do you need to be more of a higher tenor as opposed to a baritone voice when you're singing that style? Anybody who can help me on this one?

[Ax]

It is all in the breath...

Here's a bit of a tutorial on breathing that my former instructor gave me... Sit in a chair in choir position (on the edge of the seat, feet flat on floor, sitting up straight). Take your hands and find the bottoms of your rib cage on each respective side. Place them there like you would on your hips to make fun of a girl who's blessing you out... Breathe into your hands... I know that sounds nebulous but try focusing on your hands... your Diaphragm wraps around your entire chest, so breathing into the sides right there will help you isolate the muscle...

Also, never pause in between breathing and exhaling, let there be a natural motion, this affects tone so much...

Finally, warm up before you sing...

[presbystrat]

Originally Posted by Adam B

About the breath support - I'm trying to work on that. Most of the time when I'm singing, I take really big breaths, but it's not really about taking massive breaths, is it? Could I be belting it out too hard and using up all my air too fast? I seem to have trouble really figuring out the correct technique. I definitely try to keep my throat open, but it's hard to keep relaxed when it gets really high.

Crazychu - I'm not really much of a country singer, but I'll see what I can find. The style I'm aiming for is something along the lines of United, Casting Crowns, Matt Redman, Delirious, etc. Anyone who's familiar with those styles hang around here? It sounds to me like they never use any head voice - do you think that's true, or not? Would using head voice/falsetto work well with their styles, or not? Do you need to be more of a higher tenor as opposed to a baritone voice when you're singing that style? Anybody who can help me on this one?

When you breath in, do you notice your shoulders rising or your chest expanding? Ideally, all the expansion should be taking place in your abdomen. This gives you maximum air capacity. When you breath out to sing it should be very controlled and supported. Make sure you're supporting and not pushing. Practice taking in deep breaths like Axguitar suggested and then breath out in a controlled fashion seeing how long you can breath out. If you concentrate on your breathing and the note you need to sing, you will have less of a tendency to tighten up in the throat. This is another reason to work on your pitch. You need to be able to think the note in your mind and then sing it. If you are having trouble finding a pitch you may have a tendency to use your throat to find the pitch. This is called the "pain method" of finding pitch. I still have trouble with that when I am sight reading sometimes.

Unfortunately male popular music singers tend to be tenors. The good news is that as you learn better technique, you should be able to improve your range. A baritone with good technique can usually sing the tenor part in choral music. I tend to think of baritones as "lazy tenors" (except they can usually sing lower than I can).

[MrCrabby]

Originally Posted by presbystrat

Unfortunately male popular music singers tend to be tenors.

I really wouldn't say "unfortunately," I think there could be a market for some good, strong baritone voices in pop music--as long as they have a good falsetto as well.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by presbystrat

I tend to think of baritones as "lazy tenors" (except they can usually sing lower than I can).

So I guess that makes me a "lazy tenor", eh? Actually, I've done some singing with a songster group at church. I've tried going on tenor, but they keep kicking me back to bass, because whenever I sing tenor, I sing pretty loud (I think the other part of it is that if I was on tenor, there'd be 7 tenors and 2 basses). Trouble is, the guy who sings bass next to me keeps throwing me off because whenever the line we're singing goes above middle C, he drops down an octave and I end up missing the note.

As far as my head voice goes - I can go up to almost a D(the one on the first string, 10th fret) and nearly always a C. The trouble is, it sounds absolutely horrible to my ears when I hear it (I mean anywhere in my head voice - not just the super high notes). Is that normal? Should I try posting something where I do that for some feedback?

[presbystrat]

Originally Posted by Adam B

So I guess that makes me a "lazy tenor", eh? Actually, I've done some singing with a songster group at church. I've tried going on tenor, but they keep kicking me back to bass, because whenever I sing tenor, I sing pretty loud (I think the other part of it is that if I was on tenor, there'd be 7 tenors and 2 basses). Trouble is, the guy who sings bass next to me keeps throwing me off because whenever the line we're singing goes above middle C, he drops down an octave and I end up missing the note.

As far as my head voice goes - I can go up to almost a D(the one on the first string, 10th fret) and nearly always a C. The trouble is, it sounds absolutely horrible to my ears when I hear it (I mean anywhere in my head voice - not just the super high notes). Is that normal? Should I try posting something where I do that for some feedback?

By "lazy tenor" I mean that a lot of baritones with some training can sing the tenor part as long as it doesn't get stratosphericaly high. With some training it may be possible for you to learn to sing softer on higher notes. Sounds like you have a "lazy Bass" in your group . If you would like to post some of your falsetto singing I would be glad to give you some feedback.

[Adam B]

I guess you're right about having a "lazy bass". Of course, this guy says he can get all the way down to a low C, where I have a hard time going below a G. He keeps saying that I should do the same thing that he does, but that's not how it's written! The thing is, like I said - it really keeps throwing me off.

OK - here's a recording I made of myself trying to sing "All I Need is You" from United - I figured that would be the right kind of song to use as an example, because at times it's quite low, and at other times it really gets up there. There's 2 different places where I have to go into head voice. The thing is, it sounds so harshly different compared to my chest voice. What do you think I'm doing wrong here? I hope that I'm not being too much of a pest here.

[Ax]

Originally Posted by presbystrat

By "lazy tenor" I mean that a lot of baritones with some training can sing the tenor part as long as it doesn't get stratosphericaly high. With some training it may be possible for you to learn to sing softer on higher notes. Sounds like you have a "lazy Bass" in your group . If you would like to post some of your falsetto singing I would be glad to give you some feedback.

This is true... I can sing a lot of tenor parts... but any time they get to the point where they're belting stuff out... I'm screwed...

Originally Posted by Adam B

I guess you're right about having a "lazy bass". Of course, this guy says he can get all the way down to a low C, where I have a hard time going below a G. He keeps saying that I should do the same thing that he does, but that's not how it's written! The thing is, like I said - it really keeps throwing me off.

OK - here's a recording I made of myself trying to sing "All I Need is You" from United - I figured that would be the right kind of song to use as an example, because at times it's quite low, and at other times it really gets up there. There's 2 different places where I have to go into head voice. The thing is, it sounds so harshly different compared to my chest voice. What do you think I'm doing wrong here? I hope that I'm not being too much of a pest here.

The first clips you posted were better than the last one... I really think you need to stop trying to force your sound though... that's what it sounds like is going on to me... Relax and let it flow.

[presbystrat]

I still hear a lot of pitch problems. I think you need to make that a priority. Most people will put up with all kinds of vocal quality in pop music as long as you are on pitch. I hear a lot of straining on the high notes because you are singing from the throat. Falsetto should be very relaxed. I think developing your ear will help with this too. As I have said before, you need to be able to hear the note in your mind before you sing so that you are not trying to find it with you vocal chords.

Don't worry about being a pest. I am glad to help where I can. This forum doesn't see a whole lot of action anyway.

[Adam B]

One of the things lately I've felt - it's never been easy for me to sing high notes. I definitely have to push them out a lot of the time (they don't seem to come easily). Also, try as I might - I can never keep my throat as relaxed as it seems I should. The problem is, that so many worship songs go up into that range, and if I lower them into a comfortable range, A - it tends to kill the song, and B - now I can't practice by singing with the CD. One person has told me that I should avoid singing high notes all together. What do you think? Is it possible that my voice just isn't suited for singing high notes? If it isn't, then how will I ever be able to sing on a team?

[presbystrat]

Originally Posted by Adam B

One of the things lately I've felt - it's never been easy for me to sing high notes. I definitely have to push them out a lot of the time (they don't seem to come easily). Also, try as I might - I can never keep my throat as relaxed as it seems I should. The problem is, that so many worship songs go up into that range, and if I lower them into a comfortable range, A - it tends to kill the song, and B - now I can't practice by singing with the CD. One person has told me that I should avoid singing high notes all together. What do you think? Is it possible that my voice just isn't suited for singing high notes? If it isn't, then how will I ever be able to sing on a team?

With some training you should be able to reach those high notes without having to push or belt it out. To avoid singing the high notes would be to limit the range of your voice. Do you have the means to get some vocal training? If you don't have the money it's possible to get free training. I got my vocal training from my High School choir director, my sister who was a voice major, from student teachers at my college (it can be useful to go to a college with a good music department even if you don't major in music), and from a community choir director. The VAT is a good resource for tips. I was looking at "Singing for Dummies" in the bookstore and it looked like it might be helpful. I was thinking of getting for myself to brush up on my technique and also learn techniques for singing pop music. There is no substitute for a good vocal coach though.

[Ax]

I honestly think that you could be a bass... I think that you should probably find a vocal instructor.