San Francisco passes plastic-bag ban

Bryan · 03-28-2007, 11:03 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/...lastic_bag_ban

I thought this line was funny:

Quote:

The new breed of bags "offers consumers a way out of a false choice, a way out of the paper or plastic dilemma," Noble said.

if you make paper bags illegal regardless of their composition, then there is no delimma.

**thesteve** · 03-28-2007, 11:27 AM

I really expect most grocery stores in SF to go back to paper bags. Ultimately grocery stores are trying to compete financially and make cost-effective decisions. Using an untested, expensive product doesn't seem to line up with either of those goals.

comitatus1 · 03-28-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/...lastic_bag_ban

I thought this line was funny:

if you make paper bags illegal regardless of their composition, then there is no delimma.

I don't think people who [not you] think we can replace everything made from petroleum [such as gasoline] with something made from grain [such as ethanol] are really thinking things through. Where's the study that shows we can grow enough grain to replace petroleum products in this fashion without driving food costs through the roof? Now we have "plastic" bags made from corn byproducts. Isn't this unnecessary? Don't paper bags already fill the bill?

Chris

**thesteve** · 03-28-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comitatus1

Where's the study that shows we can grow enough grain to replace petroleum products in this fashion without driving food costs through the roof? Now we have "plastic" bags made from corn byproducts. Isn't this unnecessary? Don't paper bags already fill the bill?

From what I understand, the US produces enough grain in the midwest to feed the entire world a couple times. Alot of it goes to feeding mega-farms (cattle, pigs, chickens, etc.) and some amount just goes to waste to keep the agriculture economy stable.

[sarc]And of course, paper bags are bad...because paper comes from trees and can't be recycled at all [/sarc]

JerryLove · 03-28-2007, 11:38 AM

Let me start by saying: Any time we can make use out of what was waste (bags from byproducts) that's good.

There was a point "back in the day" when the envyronmental movement was against paper bags. The loss of trees to the paper industry was signifigant (still is).

Personally, I think we should start bringing our own cloth bags to the grocery store. I'm tempted to do so myself from time to time. Until then, I'll just settle for reusing and/or recycling the plastic bags I get.

**thesteve** · 03-28-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

Personally, I think we should start bringing our own cloth bags to the grocery store. I'm tempted to do so myself from time to time. Until then, I'll just settle for reusing and/or recycling the plastic bags I get.

this is the thing I didn't understand about the article. I was of the understanding that plastic bags from grocery stores are very recyclable. I remember seeing bins full of plastic bags with the bins labelled for bag recycling purposes.

JerryLove · 03-28-2007, 12:06 PM

That was my understanding as well. Perhaps they are trying to solve a "people aren't recycling" issue?

Bryan · 03-28-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

That was my understanding as well. Perhaps they are trying to solve a "people aren't recycling" issue?

this is true, and since I can't put plastic bags in the recycling bin that the city picks up, I put them in the trash bin the city picks up.

gtrdave · 03-28-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

Personally, I think we should start bringing our own cloth bags to the grocery store. I'm tempted to do so myself from time to time. Until then, I'll just settle for reusing and/or recycling the plastic bags I get.

My wife has been doing this for some time now and it's provided an excellent use of the various cloth bags that I received as gifts and at trade shows over the years.
One of our local stores (PathMark I believe) issues a $.05 discount for every bag of theirs that you do not use so that's another incentive albeit a small one.
Trader Joe's may do something similar but I'm not positive.

As far as recycling and the public's lack of it, it's a regional issue as much as it's a behavioral issue.
Out in SoCali there were pockets of communities, like us in Burbank, that actively recycled because we had our own recycling center in-town and residents were provided with a seperate "blue" trash can for all their recyclables to be picked up on a weekly basis.
Other communities didn't make it as easy to execute. There's a large immigrant population that may come from a home country that hardly has anything resembling a structured weekly garbage collection system let alone a recycling program so they're less apt to join the "green earth" cause.
Then there are the folks that regardless of age/race/creed/etc simply choose to live like pigs and the outdoors is their great dumping ground (Spinal Tap wrote a song about them.).

Out here in the northeast, our state has implimented a curbside recycling program that is in it's infancy and not too many folks are buying into it yet so the gov is looking at ways to "encourage" (i.e.; legislate) the population to participate.

Behavioral change through legislation. Ya gotta love it.

JerryLove · 03-28-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Behavioral change through legislation. Ya gotta love it.

isn't that the purpose of any legislation?

gtrdave · 03-28-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

isn't that the purpose of any legislation?

A short answer would be no...and yes.

A thoruough answer would demand a new thread.

Peatrical · 03-28-2007, 11:22 PM

I am in full agreement with this law.

comitatus1 · 03-28-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

That was my understanding as well. Perhaps they are trying to solve a "people aren't recycling" issue?

I think they are trying to solve the "people are pigs" issue.

Chris

bobthecockroach · 03-29-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comitatus1

I think they are trying to solve the "people are pigs" issue.

Chris

Which seems like an issue worth solving.

passinthru · 03-29-2007, 12:01 AM

Around here there is no paper or plastic option. It's plastic or BYO. Some grocery stores give you the option to buy plastic bags or else bring your own or use the empty packaging boxes that the food comes in. I like that.

I don't know if a new kind of bag is the right way to go, but frankly things need to change and I see this as a step in the right direction.

I remember as a kid we had paper bags, but it's been quite awhile now. And we can recycle our plastic bags in the blue bins with weekly roadside pickup.