[Prospero]

From an article in the Washington Times:

Earlier this month, a German teen-ager was forcibly taken from her parents and imprisoned in a psychiatric ward. Her crime? She is being home-schooled.

On Feb. 1, 15 German police officers forced their way into the home of the Busekros family in the Bavarian town of Erlangen. They hauled off 16-year-old Melissa, the eldest of the six Busekros children, to a psychiatric ward in nearby Nuremberg. Last week, a court affirmed that Melissa has to remain in the Child Psychiatry Unit because she is suffering from "school phobia."

Home-schooling has been illegal in Germany since Adolf Hitler outlawed it in 1938 and ordered all children to be sent to state schools. The home-schooling community in Germany is tiny. As Hitler knew, Germans tend to obey orders unquestioningly. Only some 500 children are being home-schooled in a country of 80 million. Home-schooling families are prosecuted without mercy...

Read the entire article.

[Ax]

I dislike home-schooling. I think that state-school, or even private school, helps prepare people for society in a way that home-schooling can't (or at least the way I've seen it done).

My cousins are home schooled. They have no social skills because the only people they've ever been around are themselves. This summer I called one up and asked him to go to a concert with me. What seemed normal to me seemed outlandish an strange to him. He was appalled to find out that the venue, where Showbread was playing, served alcohol. He freaked out when he saw all the people wearing black... it was soo strange to him, and to us, well, that's normal...

Call me crazy for seeing it as normal, but these people don't know how to react to different situations. They're sheltered from the norm and, while the intentions are good, they only hinder the person.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by AXguitar

I dislike home-schooling. I think that state-school, or even private school, helps prepare people for society in a way that home-schooling can't (or at least the way I've seen it done).

The problem here is that you're assuming that the only place people are preparing for society is in school. That's simply not the case. Further, I"m not certain that exposing mid-schoolers and high schoolers in a completely unfiltered environment to all of the depravity of the world is the best way to prepare them to function in society.

My cousins are home schooled. They have no social skills because the only people they've ever been around are themselves.

1) This is a stereotype.

2) As easily as you can provide examples of homeschoolers with no social skills, I can provide examples of homeschoolers with social skills.

3) Lack of social skills isn't unique to homeschoolers. If you go to any high schooler or junior high, you will find a number of odd balls who lack social skills. Thus, attending a public or private school doesn't magically solve this problem.

4) Most people who homeschool today are part co-ops. At least one day a week they will meet together with other homeschoolers. Likewise, most homeschoolers in the United States are Christians and involved with a church. Thus they interact with people at church.

This summer I called one up and asked him to go to a concert with me. What seemed normal to me seemed outlandish an strange to him. He was appalled to find out that the venue, where Showbread was playing, served alcohol. He freaked out when he saw all the people wearing black... it was soo strange to him, and to us, well, that's normal...

Those critiques aren't unique to homeschoolers. Nor does that have to do with social skills. That sounds like someone who has been raised in a legalistic and judgmental environment. You don't need homeschooling to end up like that.

Call me crazy for seeing it as normal, but these people don't know how to react to different situations. They're sheltered from the norm and, while the intentions are good, they only hinder the person.

So because your cousins are legalistic, judgmental and have no social skillers, it holds that all homeschoolers are legalistic, judgmental and lack social skills?


BTW I went to public school

[H.M. Murdock]

homskooling was gr8 4 me!

I'll say more about this later. As a person who continuously stands up to college professors, lawyers, peers, and... well, everyone, I can say that homeschooling is neutral ground, just like public or private schools. What makes or breaks it is the student, the teachers, and the quality of the environment. If we are to assume that one mode of education should be banned because it can fail, then we must ban all modes in order to save ourselves from that horrible damnation that is the chance of failure.

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by H.M. Murdock

homskooling was gr8 4 me!

I'll say more about this later. As a person who continuously stands up to college professors, lawyers, peers, and... well, everyone, I can say that homeschooling is neutral ground, just like public or private schools. What makes or breaks it is the student, the teachers, and the quality of the environment. If we are to assume that one mode of education should be banned because it can fail, then we must ban all modes in order to save ourselves from that horrible damnation that is the chance of failure.

You are the win.

As for the story in question, while I disagree with Germany's policy on homeschooling, I would be much more apt to send my children to school in Germany than I would in the United States. Their education is system is quite good (and structured in such a way that allows a great deal of freedom in what you want to pursue).

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by AXguitar

Call me crazy for seeing it as normal, but these people don't know how to react to different situations. They're sheltered from the norm and, while the intentions are good, they only hinder the person.

You can't damn an entire group because of your experiences with a few of them. I was homeschooled. I scored ridiculously high on my standardized tests. I have excellent grades in college (one B+ in 3 years). I interact with my professors more often than most of my classmates. I have no qualms at all about talking to anyone in the university, whether it be the president or other students. I spoke to the president and provost in front of about 1000 people during a meeting about a change at my school. I have had letters-to-the-editor published in the school newspaper several times and always received praise for them from my professors. I have gotten to know people vastly different from myself and interacted with them without trouble. I have been in situations like you described with the concert without any problems. I consume alcohol in moderation and have no qualms about being around it. Unlike public schoolers, during my education, I had to interact with people vastly different from me in age. Etc. etc.

[ibanez_dude]

I agree w/ murdock, it's the students and parents that will make or break homeschooling, just like its the students and teachers that will make or break public school. Overall, it has its ups and downs. As a entirely homeschooled student through high school (going to college next year) I can say that homeschooling has enabled me to focus very well on my studies. I am like 2-3 years ahead in math, and I have scored very well on all my standardized tests of all sorts. Socially, I admit, my education has been more lacking than some other peoples. Not completely, but somewhat. That is not the fault of homeschooling however, it is the fault of my parents, who I believe did not put enough effort into any kind of social education. I mean, for crying out loud, we used to only leave the house for church and sports. That was it. My mom says she doesn't like what she calls "social dependancy", which means she would be perfectly happy if we only left the house once a week for church or something, and that she wants us to happy with that too. Go figure.

[comitatus1]

Originally Posted by AXguitar

I dislike home-schooling. I think that state-school, or even private school, helps prepare people for society in a way that home-schooling can't (or at least the way I've seen it done).


My cousins are home schooled. They have no social skills because the only people they've ever been around are themselves. This summer I called one up and asked him to go to a concert with me. What seemed normal to me seemed outlandish an strange to him. He was appalled to find out that the venue, where Showbread was playing, served alcohol. He freaked out when he saw all the people wearing black... it was soo strange to him, and to us, well, that's normal...

Call me crazy for seeing it as normal, but these people don't know how to react to different situations. They're sheltered from the norm and, while the intentions are good, they only hinder the person.

My wife and I have homeschooled 3 of our 4 boys. The only reason we didn't homeschool the oldest is because he was already in high school when we started.

I can only say that I strenuously object to your stereotyping of homeschoolers. Our oldest homeschooler is 23, is married and heads up computer operations for the company he works for. Our 21 year old serves our country in the North Carolina National Guard, is taking night classes to finish up is degree in Law Enforcement, and works 40 hours a week as a machinist. Our 15 year old plays in a homeschool basketball league of 11 teams, plays baseball, and is performing well above grade level.

All three are very well socialized. The argument that homeschoolers are undersocialized is one of the most tired, worn-out arguments there is. It doesn't apply to my family, and it doesn't apply to any of the homeschool families I know and believe me, I know many many more than you do.

We don't need to subject any of the children of this country to the kind of "preparation" that public schools provide.

Chris

[Ax]

I can only speak from my experiences... and I guess I've never heard of these homeschoolers that meet with others... but of the ones I know, they are socially inept and unprepared for the world and society. I mean, I used to spend time with my cousins all the time and they have no clue how to act in society... I know that I wont ever have kids in home school... if for nothing else than the elitism that i've seen from homeschoolers who are so sure that their way is best and that the rest of the world just isn't good enough.

[Drew Neal]

I child that is home schooled properly should have much better socials skills than most public or private school children. I was home schooled for my entire K-12 education and have had absolutly no social issues.

My parents made sure to expose me to all age groups, classes and many ethnic backgrounds. Growing up I or my family had Indian, Iranian, and serious native American friends.

Even as a child I could confidantly interact with any age adult, because I spent time with them. When you restrict kids to only their age group they have an extreemly hard time respecting and relating to those who are older.

My wife, on the other hand attended public school. Junior High is a nightmare to her to this day. She isn't anti social, but she has far less confidance in public and around others than I do.

P.S.

Originally Posted by AXguitar

I... if for nothing else than the elitism that i've seen from homeschoolers who are so sure that their way is best and that the rest of the world just isn't good enough.

This is a hard thing for HS'ers to overcome. It goes to your head when your 14, in college and pulling a 4.0 without studying outside of class.

[passinthru]

Originally Posted by Drew Neal

Even as a child I could confidently interact with any age adult, because I spent time with them. When you restrict kids to only their age group they have an extremely hard time respecting and relating to those who are older.

My wife, on the other hand attended public school. Junior High is a nightmare to her to this day. She isn't anti social, but she has far less confidence in public and around others than I do.

The being comfortable with people of all age and learning to respect others regardless of their age and social standing is not a skill that is unique to those who were home schooled. I was never home schooled and I also have that skill set through other circumstances.

My grade school and high school years were also a nightmare - through out the public school system, private Christian school, and distance education that I used to complete my schooling.

No approach to schooling is perfect. There are always exceptions that prove someone's side that x was so horrid and y is the "right" way or the "Christian" way to educate your children.

[KFBobInsanesMom]

I homeschooled my boys and now work in the public high school. My boys were by far more academically prepared and more socially prepared than the vast majority of the kids I come in contact with daily at the high school.

My boys took art, band, debate, biology, chemistry, creative writing, (and I'm sure I've forgotten a few others) classes with other homeschoolers who were younger, the same age, and older than them. They learned to interact with people of all ages, not just with their peers. We took field trips, went to museums, were active in AWANA, etc.. From my experience, the vast majority of homeschoolers are involved in activities outside the home and the great benefit is that these activities involve adults and kids of all ages. My boys had no problem interacting with preschoolers or with the elderly in the nursing home. I don't see this happening in the public high school I work at.

I am even more convinced now that I have experience with the public high school that homeschooling is by far the best way to educate your children.

What I find especially ironic is that I work with an autistic young man who spent 10 years in the public school system and was failing miserably. In the 6 months I have worked with him, he has made the principal's honor roll, he was January student of the month, he aced his standardized midterms, and his mom actually believes (for the first time since he started school) that he will actually graduate one day. What did I do that the others who have worked with him didn't do? I pulled him out of the great "socialization" he was being the victim of in several classes; I ran interference in the regular ed classes he does go to and made sure that he was not teased, ridiculed, etc. as is common for any student who is at all different; and I didn't accept "passing" from him , but I expected him to really learn the material he was to learn. I watch teachers each day who give up and just go through the motions because there is little to nothing they can do about those students who cause disruptions, harass others, etc. I wouldn't put a child of mine in the public school no matter what I had to sacrifice to keep them out of there.

[Lightknight]

There are some serious problems that can rise up from homeschooling. But as long as the parents doing the homeschooling recognize these threats and act accordingly, homeschooling can be far superior to even private schools.

Social issues are indeed a major problem that can come out of such sheltering (a person can go to public schools and still technically be sheltered) but they don't have to be. It is a stereotype because this does typically happen, unfortunately. There are severe social issues, actually, that have popped up as a result of sheltering that can haunt people to much later stages of their lives. The trick is to keep your kid very active in groups that meet regularly so that they interact socially enough not to be traumatized. Encourage them to make personal friends and don't keep them entirely sheltered from the real world. Sheltering doesn't have to be a bad thing, just do it in appropriate moderation.

Another issue that arises pertains to work scheduling. Too often we find homeschooling systems that are very lax about when things are due and when they get to college they initially do terribly in classes that have strict deadlines and such. However, note that homeschool students are also able to adjust to things like this much faster than the normally schooled student would be AND a properly homeschooled student will consistently score higher in every area than publically schooled students.

So, I would say that homeschooling is best, but it needs to be done properly OR NOT AT ALL.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Drew Neal

I child that is home schooled properly should have much better socials skills than most public or private school children.

That would be a good example of the elitism Ax mentioned.

This is a hard thing for HS'ers to overcome. It goes to your head when your 14, in college and pulling a 4.0 without studying outside of class.

...and that would hardly be the norm for home schoolers.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by KFBobInsanesMom

I homeschooled my boys and now work in the public high school. My boys were by far more academically prepared and more socially prepared than the vast majority of the kids I come in contact with daily at the high school.

To have a fair comparison all factors needs to be equal. One of the major factors in a childs academic success and social development is parent involvement. Parent involvement is inherent in home schooling. To fairly compare home school to public school to private school you would need to compare students from public and private school who's parents are actively involved in their education and socialization. Simply by observing students at a school you can't really determine that.