[AudioACanuck]

Originally Posted by thesteve

You don't think learning how to deal with people and work efficiently in high stress situations are important life skills for people to learn?

Get a job at a fast food restuarant with bad management, and some not so nice coworkers, then you'll know how to work in high stress situations lol

But all this about social skills is all a bunch of crap, I work at Tim Horton's, there's only two guys working there, me and another guy. Well he went to public school and I was homeschooled. I am way more friendly with customers than he is, he talks quietly and isn't all that friendly to them. I mean he's a nice guy when ya get to know him but seems unfriendly when you first meet him.

And also serving people, there are pbers who are way more quiet and shy than me, I'll look at hem and smile and say hi can I help you? They look at the floor and say their order and I can barely hear them, and then I say have a god day and they just grunt.

It goes both ways, my point is that the socialized argument is a fallacy created by those who are against homeschooling. I've met outgoing pbers and homscholers and shy ones too. It's not whether you are homeschooled or not.

[AudioACanuck]

Originally Posted by Nate

You and I (and a few others) are exceptions, brother. I hate tooting my own horn, but I scored a 35 composite on the ACT and had a single B+ throughout my entire undergraduate degree program. That's not the norm.

Just read posts from some of the homeschoolers on this site. It can be ridiculous. I was nowhere near as immature and ignorant as many of the people on this site are. They may have good grades, but are practically incompetent.

But not all the rude and idiotic posts are from homeschoolers, you say it like all the homeschoolers are the idiots and the public schoolers never have idiotic posts. I could say the same thing about public schoolers on this site. Neither group is more idiotic or incompetent.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by AudioACanuck

But not all the rude and idiotic posts are from homeschoolers, you say it like all the homeschoolers are the idiots and the public schoolers never have idiotic posts. I could say the same thing about public schoolers on this site. Neither group is more idiotic or incompetent.

I never said that public schoolers weren't idiots. I just said that homeschoolers were, which I think, personally, is more important because there's no reason for them to be if homeschooling is the "better" education system (which I believe it to be). It saddens me more than you can imagine because I love kids and I love education and I love the fact that I was homeschooled. It sucks to see something that I think is one of the greatest ideas in history turn out such idiotic and incompetent people. If the public school system does it, it sucks for the kids, but it's to be expected because nothing that the government touches ever turns out anything except idiocy and incompetency.

[tigerfan88]

^^ Exactly. I'm sorry if my post came across as idiotic or rude, as that really wasn't my intention. I just wanted to add my two cents about the whole HSing thing and say what it has done for me.

As for being naturally smart playing a huge role in success.....that's not always true (as you pointed out). I'm not an incredibly smart person by nature (lol), but I've still done pretty well. I think it's because I've tried to apply myself to really learning any subject I study (except for math, lol). If you apply yourself, it doesn't matter what's in your genetics. You'll do well in school.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Nate

I never said that public schoolers weren't idiots. I just said that homeschoolers were, which I think, personally, is more important because there's no reason for them to be if homeschooling is the "better" education system (which I believe it to be). It saddens me more than you can imagine because I love kids and I love education and I love the fact that I was homeschooled. It sucks to see something that I think is one of the greatest ideas in history turn out such idiotic and incompetent people. If the public school system does it, it sucks for the kids, but it's to be expected because nothing that the government touches ever turns out anything except idiocy and incompetency.

Then maybe you should revise your statement to "the parents of dumb homeschoolers have no excuse," because it seems like your judgment is anecdotal. I can think of numerous families in and around Austin, Texas to whom homeschooling was a vital part or the entirety of their pre-college education who are fantastic students, or if graduated are excelling.

And I think many dumb public schoolers have excuses because many schools in America are poorly run.

[AudioACanuck]

Originally Posted by Nate

I never said that public schoolers weren't idiots. I just said that homeschoolers were, which I think, personally, is more important because there's no reason for them to be if homeschooling is the "better" education system (which I believe it to be). It saddens me more than you can imagine because I love kids and I love education and I love the fact that I was homeschooled. It sucks to see something that I think is one of the greatest ideas in history turn out such idiotic and incompetent people. If the public school system does it, it sucks for the kids, but it's to be expected because nothing that the government touches ever turns out anything except idiocy and incompetency.

I see your point, that a lot of homeschoolers aren't actually doing better than the public schoolers. You expect them to do better but they don't, and some homeschoolers tend to act like they are better because they are gettin a better education. thats what I don't like.
But here's something really disturbing, my dad knows a guy who unschooled his children, they are in grade 7, but are actually at a grade 11 level in public school.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by AudioACanuck

It goes both ways, my point is that the socialized argument is a fallacy created by those who are against homeschooling.

And comparing yourself to another guy isn't?

I've met outgoing pbers and homscholers and shy ones too. It's not whether you are homeschooled or not.

The question isn't about whether they're shy or not. So I'm not sure how this is relevent.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Then maybe you should revise your statement to "the parents of dumb homeschoolers have no excuse,"

I basically did, although I don't think we give kids, in general, enough credit or enough benefit of the doubt. I basically taught myself all math after Algebra 1. That's entirely possible, even with other subjects, if a kid is given decent books and has enough critical-thinking skills in his pocket. Past a certain level, the child has no excuse. I'd say homeschooled highschoolers, in general, should have no excuse for the poorness of their education (provided that they had decent early education, which, of course, would be the parents' responsibility).

And I think many dumb public schoolers have excuses because many schools in America are poorly run.

They're all poorly run, by necessity, because they're all run by governments, which are the least effective human institution in history. And my entire point was that public schoolers do, in fact, have an excuse for their lack of education, so I'm not sure what you're responding to here.

[tigerfan88]

Originally Posted by AudioACanuck

You expect them to do better but they don't, and some homeschoolers tend to act like they are better because they are gettin a better education. thats what I don't like.
But here's something really disturbing, my dad knows a guy who unschooled his children, they are in grade 7, but are actually at a grade 11 level in public school.

It's definitely an elitist attitude that you see not just with HS'ers, but private schoolers, too. They have a bit of an ego and think they are better just because the quality of their education may be higher. I think this attitude is one of the turnoffs of HSing. I know I'm turned off by it and try not to give off this attitude myself.

I have heard good things about unschooling. It's a very interest-led thing, and I think if you're doing something you like, you tend to learn it pretty fast and pretty well. However, it's not for everyone. Those kids who need structure in their education probably wouldn't be the best candidates for unschooling.

Originally Posted by Nate

I basically taught myself all math after Algebra 1. That's entirely possible, even with other subjects, if a kid is given decent books and has enough critical-thinking skills in his pocket. Past a certain level, the child has no excuse. I'd say homeschooled highschoolers, in general, should have no excuse for the poorness of their education (provided that they had decent early education, which, of course, would be the parents' responsibility).

Same here. My mom was never good at high school-level math, so she really couldn't help me with that. Luckily, I had a solid grounding in math based on all the textbooks I had gone through(and, of course, her wonderful teaching in math during the elementary/middle school years). One of the things I like about homeschooling is the ability to tweak the education to the child's learning patterns. After I had gone through Saxon for Algebra and Algebra 2, and part of their Advanced Math book, I was sick of Saxon's approach to math. So my mom and I talked about it and decided to switch, mid-way through my senior year, to Lial Pre-Calculus (which is working well for me). I love the fact that if I dislike a certain book, my mom is open to the idea of trying another book instead.

Kids, like you said, who have been given the tools necessary to succeed have no excuse for failure that is caused by them not applying themselves to learning. Slacker homeschoolers don't have an excuse for their laziness. They only have themselves to blame for whatever problems they have in college.

[AudioACanuck]

Originally Posted by Sean

And comparing yourself to another guy isn't?


The question isn't about whether they're shy or not. So I'm not sure how this is relevent.

First off comparing myself to another guy is not a fallacy created by those who are against homeschooling. j/k I know thats not what ya meant.

Seriously though I was only comparing to make a point, maybe I shouldn't have used myself? I'm just saying that "you will not be socialized if you homeschool" is false. And I was giving an example to back my statement.

Socializing is about how you deal with other people, and a few people I have talked to say that homeschoolers are normally shy, while public schoolers aren't, so that's what I was getting at there.

I'm just saying that this whole socialized thing is realy pointless, at home I have to deal with my parents and younger and older siblings. We have to learn how to get along. That is part of being socialized.

I'd like to know, how is your post any more relevant than what I said? At least the rest of my post was relevant.

[tigerfan88]

Originally Posted by AudioACanuck

Socializing is about how you deal with other people, and a few people I have talked to say that homeschoolers are normally shy, while public schoolers aren't, so that's what I was getting at there.

That statement seems pretty much true to me. HS'ers are quite shy initially. At least that's how I am. But once I get to know someone, I really open up to them. So I'm a shy kind of person, not really anti-social. I'm able to interact in any environment because I've learned my social skills through interaction with a wide-variety of people. At church, at sports activities etc.

My social skills will get tested when I go to college this fall. I'll let you know how that works out.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by tigerfan88

That statement seems pretty much true to me. HS'ers are quite shy initially. At least that's how I am. But once I get to know someone, I really open up to them. So I'm a shy kind of person, not really anti-social. I'm able to interact in any environment because I've learned my social skills through interaction with a wide-variety of people. At church, at sports activities etc.

My social skills will get tested when I go to college this fall. I'll let you know how that works out.

I think alot of the perceptions of HSers are changing because many HSers are actually working in co-ops or going to community college when their self-teaching (or parental teaching) abilities fall short.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by AudioACanuck

First off comparing myself to another guy is not a fallacy created by those who are against homeschooling. j/k I know thats not what ya meant.

Seriously though I was only comparing to make a point, maybe I shouldn't have used myself? I'm just saying that "you will not be socialized if you homeschool" is false. And I was giving an example to back my statement.

The problem is that when someone says that homeschoolers have no social skills they're making a general statement about the tendency of homeschoolers to be less socialized. You can't prove or disprove this with any one example.

Socializing is about how you deal with other people

I know and that invovles far more than how shy someone is.

and a few people I have talked to say that homeschoolers are normally shy, while public schoolers aren't, so that's what I was getting at there.

Anyone claiming that doesn't know what they're talking about.

I'm just saying that this whole socialized thing is realy pointless, at home I have to deal with my parents and younger and older siblings. We have to learn how to get along. That is part of being socialized.

That is part of being socialized, but there is a huge difference between family interaction and societal interaction. There is a big difference in knowing how to interact with adults and knowing how to interact with peers. These are all elements of socialization.

I'd like to know, how is your post any more relevant than what I said? At least the rest of my post was relevant.

Pointing out that shyness is not equal to unsocialized seems entirely relevent to the conversation.

[Katze]

I'm 17, homeschooled since day one, and I really regret it.

I started community college at 16, and it's working out quite well now.

The main problem was that my mom and I never got along, and the first thing that we fought about was school work. At 14, I asked my mom to plan out high-school requirements, and she said to just keep going with what I already was doing. Spelling, handwriting, and poetry memorization, and everything that I had been doing since 2nd grade. Sorry, but I wanted more than just that. Any time that I brought up the subject, it would turn into a huge fight, and I just plain gave up talking to her about it.

Last fall, she was as frustrated with me as I was with her, so she started me at college (without talking to me about it) to try and prove me wrong. It was probably the best thing that she's ever done for me.

There are 2 main things that need to be taught in school: The ability to reason and think, and then everything else. I never got the everything else, but I did learn how to teach myself and sort through a biology course and throw out the evolution crap.

Debate was another thing that went well, and I learned SOOOO much from that, but it wasn’t enough to complete a high-school diploma.

Now, at SLCC, I’m pretty much catching up on the ‘facts’ (chemistry, history, etc) that I never got at home. It’s working out quite well, but I wished that I had more high-school under my belt first.

Bottom line? If you can make it work, homeschooling is awesome. If you can’t make it work, then your kids will fail miserably. I came out okay, but it wasn’t the best for me, simply because I couldn’t work with my mom.

[tigerfan88]

Originally Posted by thesteve

I think alot of the perceptions of HSers are changing because many HSers are actually working in co-ops or going to community college when their self-teaching (or parental teaching) abilities fall short.

Yup. I hear all the time about a parent who is weak in math sending their kid to a math co-op or letting them take a course at the community college because the subject cannot be adequately covered at home. I think when a kid is unable to teach himself/herself the subject, and the parent can't do it, then it's a great idea to do co-op or CC. I didn't have the CC option because, in this state, you have to pay for dual-enrollment if you're a HS'er. But I can say that if I had the option, I would have probably taken pre-calc and calculus at the CC.

To Katze: That would be frustrating. I have a homeschooled friend whose mother hasn't taught her the way she should have. She's basically just handed her outdated school books and told to work at that. That's not really homeschooling at all and sets the child up for failure.

I remember when I started the high school aspect of homeschooling. My mom didn't have any concrete plans for what we covered but my mom's friend helped us alot in plotting out curriculum. We basically just did the subjects my mom's friend suggested for the first two years of HS. Then for the last two, my mom and I worked together to plan out my courses based on my intended college major (yes, I decided in 10th grade what I wanted to major in in college, lol).

All this to say that I can understand your frustration and your mom really did give you an inadequate education. My mom and I have fought about curriculum, but we have always found ways to make things work. I'm sorry your mom wasn't willing enough to give you the education you wanted (and deserved). Congrats on doing well in CC.