[Nomes]

Originally Posted by Emo_Rachael

Actually, I think it is a good reason.

I totally agree. I think that talking about boundaries before you start to get physical can be helpful, but I also think that being able to say, "I'm not comfortable with that" in the moment is just as important.

It sure is. But if she doesn't want to hug or hold hands or kiss yet, they both need to know about it!

Originally Posted by Emo_Rachael

Except the fact that she will let him know when she is uncomfortable! I guess I can understand the idea that he doesn't want to do ANYTHING AT ALL that would make her feel uncomfortable, and so her letting him know during or after it has already been done would not be helpful at all. But if that's the case then I say just don't touch at all.

I just don't think not touching at all is going to happen.
I don't even keep my distance from 'just-friends' friends, I hug and sometimes put an arm around them. Phil and his 'lady-friend' might be different to that, but naturally, when you're in a relationship with someone, you're going to want to do more than keep a 3 foot distance. Even if all they want to do is hug, that's still a subject that should be discussed.

Originally Posted by AudioACanuck

This is how I see it, don't even try anything, and you will never cross her limits. Whatever you do think, could this in any way make her uncomfortable? And if you think it might don't do it unless she gives you permission.

As Christans we gotta remember that it's not how far we can go, but how far we stay away. I heard a story once about a man who needed a driver to take his kid to school. The man lived by a large cliff. He asked the first driver how close he could rive to the cliff, the driver said, 'Oh I could get about 6 inches away." The second driver said the same thing. When the man asked the third driver he said, "I don't know I wouldn't even try to drive near it." Who do you think the man will let drive his kid to school?

So as long as you don't get to close to doing anything than I think you'll be fine.

I agree. Staying away is good. Limits should not be set as if to say 'We'll go this far, and then we'll just stop!' We need to keep our distance from the edge of that cliff. But if there is no cliff in sight, defining what's ok and what's not in your own mind is more difficult when faced with the opportunity for more and more physical contact.

[OctaviusIII]

Maybe I have an odd way of setting boundaries, but this is how I set them, and maybe it'll help with your situation.

First I figure out what is too far for me. That sort of thing I don't say unless it happens, as I've found that actually saying what's too far is what makes us go there. It just makes us think about what lies beyond that point. The second thing I do is I give her hand-control, meaning she has the pacing with regards to hands, which are usually at the forefront of the pushing of physical boundaries. I maintain veto power, however, so if she does something with my hands that I don't want to happen, then I just move them somewhere else.

It's sort of a role-reversal. Since she's uncomfortable telling you what is too far for her, let her pace the physical relationship. She may not know what she's uncomfortable with, but if you know what you'd be uncomfortable with and what you're concerned about, then keep that in mind as you both figure out (nonverbally) what you want (and don't want) in a physical relationship.

[Pre-Ex-Girlfriend]

It seems like what really need to happen if for you to talk with her about why it is important for you that the two of you set limits. Maybe she's never thought about it before. Who knows, but I think you need to explain to her why it's important to you. If that doesn't work and she "isn't being helpful" (I don't think you should force her to set limits) then David's (OctaviusIII) advice sounds like it could be a plan. Also, you could just ask her if it's okay with her before you do something. For example, "May I hold your hand?" or "May I put my arm around your shoulder?" And you don't have to ask every time you do it, just ask her if it's okay and if she says yes, then just grab her hand sometime.

[OctaviusIII]

Yeah, I should probably clarify: my advice is for the make-out kinds of times, and you should tell her beforehand. The less intense things (like holding hands, etc) should be done like Rachael (emo_rachael) said: ask her the first time, then consider it fair game from then on.

[passinthru]

Before I say anything - how long have the two of you been together? How old are you and how old is she?

Why is setting out all the boundaries so important to you to do right now?

When Guthrie and I met in the summer, we had already discussed some of the big lines - but a lot of the little ones we left to feel out together. There were somethings that were a matter of, this doesn't feel comfortable for me - so we didn't go there again. We've never been legalistic about it and our boundaries have always come from discussion and conversation. It was a natural part of the evolution of our relationship.

[AudioACanuck]

Originally Posted by Nomes

It sure is. But if she doesn't want to hug or hold hands or kiss yet, they both need to know about it!



I just don't think not touching at all is going to happen.
I don't even keep my distance from 'just-friends' friends, I hug and sometimes put an arm around them. Phil and his 'lady-friend' might be different to that, but naturally, when you're in a relationship with someone, you're going to want to do more than keep a 3 foot distance. Even if all they want to do is hug, that's still a subject that should be discussed.



I agree. Staying away is good. Limits should not be set as if to say 'We'll go this far, and then we'll just stop!' We need to keep our distance from the edge of that cliff. But if there is no cliff in sight, defining what's ok and what's not in your own mind is more difficult when faced with the opportunity for more and more physical contact.

I see what ya mean, if ya don't know her boundaries then you could cross them or yours just cause they are closer/further than what ya thought?
But I still think that you should set your own boundaries, and ask her beforehand if you can do things i.e. hold hands, put your arm around her, give her a kiss. So you won't cross hers.

[4stringfreak]

Originally Posted by passinthru

Before I say anything - how long have the two of you been together? How old are you and how old is she?

Why is setting out all the boundaries so important to you to do right now?

When Guthrie and I met in the summer, we had already discussed some of the big lines - but a lot of the little ones we left to feel out together. There were somethings that were a matter of, this doesn't feel comfortable for me - so we didn't go there again. We've never been legalistic about it and our boundaries have always come from discussion and conversation. It was a natural part of the evolution of our relationship.

We've been togeather about two months.

I want to set boundaries both so i dont leave her feleing hurt when/probablly if this relationship closes, and to maintain my personal integrity as a man of God.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by Emo_Rachael

Except the fact that she will let him know when she is uncomfortable! I guess I can understand the idea that he doesn't want to do ANYTHING AT ALL that would make her feel uncomfortable, and so her letting him know during or after it has already been done would not be helpful at all. But if that's the case then I say just don't touch at all.

This is a bad idea. Plain and simple. What about his limits? There are 2 people in a relationship. Now if you can't handle the awkwardness of talking about where your current limits are, then I would seriously question whether one is mature enough to be in a relationship at all.

Yes, its awkward. Yes, it always will be. In fact it is far more awkward than breaking a limit to set it. That was my wife and my's experience during dating. It was awkward, embarrasing and uncomfortable. But without it, you are both flying blind, and frankly, you are totally dismissing a girl crossing his limits which can certainly occur.

Obviously this doesn't need to turn into a legalistic check list. But the life blood of a relationship is honest communication. If that is too much to do... Than I seriously wonder about the relationship's strength.

One other concern I have is the name game. If you are refusing titles, but accepting the roles of boyfriend and girlfriend, than I seriously wonder about the maturity level of the participants in the relationship. Call it a hunch, but everytime I have observed that it has been a big warning sign of a lack of maturity.

[4stringfreak]

^^ Bill-

Ive questioned this too, (the name game) but we had a long hard disscussion about it, and we're both in highschool and see what "boyfriend and girlfriend" is seen as in our school, and its always fight-breakup-sex-back togaether-repeat sort of thing. I know some people will say "praise Jesus for a wonderful role model you two can be for JESUS!" sort of thing, but we'd rather figure out things on a one-on-one level before we put ourselves out there as bf/gf.
to add to it, we both have been made fun of in the past for our social outkastedness (she a sort of tomboy, and i a fatass) so we'd rather not open ourselves up to the sort of ridicule highschool would bring us. why bake a perfectlly good coldcut sandwich?

[passinthru]

Originally Posted by 4stringfreak

We've been togeather about two months.

okay, and how long have you been pushing for a boundaries conversation? From where I'm sitting as a female, it takes me time to get to the place where I can discuss boundaries. I would suggest that now would be a good time to start to look at them. If she can't talk about them, then maybe she can write them out and read it to you. She may just need time to get used to the idea of having to set limits.

I want to set boundaries both so i dont leave her feleing hurt when/probablly if this relationship closes, and to maintain my personal integrity as a man of God.

If the relationship ends, she's gonna be hurt whether you guys are physically intimate or not. That is what happens in relationships.

It might be worthwhile to let her know what your boundaries are for you personally instead of just asking her what hers are. She may very well not know.

[bobthecockroach]

Originally Posted by 4stringfreak

why bake a perfectlly good coldcut sandwich?

El oh el. I love it.

[passinthru]

Originally Posted by 4stringfreak

^^ Bill-

Ive questioned this too, (the name game) but we had a long hard disscussion about it, and we're both in highschool and see what "boyfriend and girlfriend" is seen as in our school, and its always fight-breakup-sex-back togaether-repeat sort of thing. I know some people will say "praise Jesus for a wonderful role model you two can be for JESUS!" sort of thing, but we'd rather figure out things on a one-on-one level before we put ourselves out there as bf/gf.
to add to it, we both have been made fun of in the past for our social outkastedness (she a sort of tomboy, and i a fatass) so we'd rather not open ourselves up to the sort of ridicule highschool would bring us. why bake a perfectlly good coldcut sandwich?

I get your reasoning - I had a friend in high school who went about things in a similar fashion for different reasons than yours. She ended up alienating her entire group of friends and to this day (4 years later) some of them still won't speak to her because of how they handled things in being together but not dating. She did end up marrying the guy and they are doing well together - but they were so wrapped up in each other, yet wouldn't admit that they were a couple ... it lead to issues.

High school is so not reality. Been there, done that, got the scars. What high school thinks is really irrelevant. There is so much more to life and reality than what happens inside the walls of a local high school. The drama rivals that on any soap opera. In not labeling yourselves bf/gf make sure that you aren't just creating a different kind of drama.

[irtrogdor]

lets see, you don't have to take advise from me (as i'm only 15) but i have had lotsa good talks with my dad about this. boundries are very important, because it keeps the good stuff easy and the bad stuff out.

setting boundries is an anti-awkwardness medicine. its that simple. boundries are not just large dams that hold all the water back, (water being pysical contact, or whatever you might be setting a boundry on) they are also cannals that are put in place so that the water has defined path. the water isn't going to wait and consider what it should do if it comes to a fork in the path, its going to go wherever its flowing at that moment. so if you can steer it the right direction by building a canna before hand, it keeps things running smoothly.

[4stringfreak]

Id just like to post a disclaimer:

Dani is a wonderful, wonderful thing in my life and whatever comes out of this relationship, and no matter how much i get hurt, she's well worth it.

Just thought id let you all know