Cave Churches/Individuals?

J_freek · 12-18-2006, 04:14 PM

Yesterday in church our districts superintendent was speaking at our church, and his text was out of I Kings 19. He pointed out many, many interesting little things in that chapter, but the one that really got me thinking was when he talked about Elijah hiding in the cave.
Elijah was hiding from Jezebel. Or, the ACLU of his day. And he was hiding in the cave. When he heard God's still small voice, he went to the edge of his cave.
The superintendent said that churches, or individuals are hiding in caves right now, from the ACLU or other things/people who are commanding our lives, and telling us what to believe, how to act, etc.
Coming to the edge of the cave is like reaching a choice in our lives. We can either go back into our cave, or we can step forward and make a difference.

What do you guys think?

twin2006 · 12-18-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_freek

Yesterday in church our districts superintendent was speaking at our church, and his text was out of I Kings 19. He pointed out many, many interesting little things in that chapter, but the one that really got me thinking was when he talked about Elijah hiding in the cave.
Elijah was hiding from Jezebel. Or, the ACLU of his day. And he was hiding in the cave. When he heard God's still small voice, he went to the edge of his cave.
The superintendent said that churches, or individuals are hiding in caves right now, from the ACLU or other things/people who are commanding our lives, and telling us what to believe, how to act, etc.
Coming to the edge of the cave is like reaching a choice in our lives. We can either go back into our cave, or we can step forward and make a difference.

What do you guys think?

did he give any specific examples of a christian hiding. like an example situation because i can't exactly understand how.

J_freek · 12-18-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twin2006

did he give any specific examples of a christian hiding. like an example situation because i can't exactly understand how.

I mean, spiritually dead. Just kinda sitting there, waiting for something to happen. He said that God is not going to pick you up, you have to get up yourself, and walk to the edge.

**thesteve** · 12-18-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_freek

I mean, spiritually dead. Just kinda sitting there, waiting for something to happen. He said that God is not going to pick you up, you have to get up yourself, and walk to the edge.

in some parts of the US/World, this is true, but in alot of places, the church is alive and well, or at least the church is alive and thriving.

comitatus1 · 12-18-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_freek

Yesterday in church our districts superintendent was speaking at our church, and his text was out of I Kings 19. He pointed out many, many interesting little things in that chapter, but the one that really got me thinking was when he talked about Elijah hiding in the cave.
Elijah was hiding from Jezebel. Or, the ACLU of his day. And he was hiding in the cave. When he heard God's still small voice, he went to the edge of his cave.
The superintendent said that churches, or individuals are hiding in caves right now, from the ACLU or other things/people who are commanding our lives, and telling us what to believe, how to act, etc.
Coming to the edge of the cave is like reaching a choice in our lives. We can either go back into our cave, or we can step forward and make a difference.

What do you guys think?

I think there are people hiding in their caves but I'm not sure this is the passage to support what your superintendent was trying to say. Several things about Elijah's story caught my attention as I read through it.

1. Yes, Elijah was afraid. He had good reason to be. But:
2. The LORD did not stop him from running. In fact, the LORD sent an angel to help him on his journey:

1Ki 19:4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness and came and sat down under a broom tree. And he asked that he might die, saying, "It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life, for I am no better than my fathers."
1Ki 19:5 And he lay down and slept under a broom tree. And behold, an angel touched him and said to him, "Arise and eat."
1Ki 19:6 And he looked, and behold, there was at his head a cake baked on hot stones and a jar of water. And he ate and drank and lay down again.
1Ki 19:7 And the angel of the LORD came again a second time and touched him and said, "Arise and eat, for the journey is too great for you."
1Ki 19:8 And he arose and ate and drank,

3. Where did the LORD lead Elijah to go? This is awesome:

1Ki 19:8 And he arose and ate and drank, and went in the strength of that food forty days and forty nights to Horeb, the mount of God.

The mount of God! Elijah had just left God on one mountain and now, forty days (time enough to put things into perspective perhaps, or better: Come to the end of one's own strength?) later, he is back on another mountain with who? God!

4. Then comes the real question: And behold, there came a voice to him and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

And Elijah's response:

1Ki 19:14 He said, "I have been very jealous for the LORD, the God of hosts. For the people of Israel have forsaken your covenant, thrown down your altars, and killed your prophets with the sword, and I, even I only, am left, and they seek my life, to take it away."

I think this is a story about loneliness. Spiritual loneliness. Elijah was was not hiding in a cave because he was afraid to come out, he was in the cave because he felt alone. It was at this point the LORD met Elijah's need when He said:

1Ki 19:18 Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."

Elijah was not the only one! There were 7,000 others like him!

As we go through our Christian lives, isn't that a need we all have, to know that there are others who love the Lord? I think Elijah's story is a good reminder to those us who may be in caves that we are not alone. I also think it is a reminder that it can be a good thing to be a cave, knowing that, like Elijah, we may be right where the Lord wants us.

Chris

J_freek · 12-18-2006, 06:22 PM

That was several of the things he pointed out. (The message was not about my original post.

)

Dice · 12-18-2006, 07:59 PM

How was Jezebel like the ACLU? The ACLU is right a lot of times, and I don't see them hunting down and murdering Christians.

bobthecockroach · 12-18-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dice

How was Jezebel like the ACLU? The ACLU is right a lot of times, and I don't see them hunting down and murdering Christians.

This was the point I was going to make...

J_freek · 12-19-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dice

How was Jezebel like the ACLU? The ACLU is right a lot of times, and I don't see them hunting down and murdering Christians.

The ACLU is not necessarily murdering and hunting us down physically. I think there was a greater meaning behind the point he was making; spiritually.
The ACLU (which is the example he used), is telling us where to have church, what we can believe, how we put things in public, telling us not to meet here, not to say this, not to say that. So, it's not always physical, but most of the time spiritual.

**+Donny** · 12-19-2006, 11:09 AM

Be careful about accusations against the ACLU. Sure, they do a lot of stupid things, but I find a lot of overblown, unwarranted accusations against them by Christians, which just makes us look paranoid.

A huge difference, though, is that Jezebel was queen of Israel. That was an example of people in Israel, the people of God, worshipping Baal and persecuting the true worshippers of God. It's more like the leadership of a big denomination holding public services to Allah and kicking out all the pastors who protest. Of course, that may not be far off in some denominations, but hey...

comitatus1 · 12-19-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_freek

The ACLU is not necessarily murdering and hunting us down physically. I think there was a greater meaning behind the point he was making; spiritually.
The ACLU (which is the example he used), is telling us where to have church, what we can believe, how we put things in public, telling us not to meet here, not to say this, not to say that. So, it's not always physical, but most of the time spiritual.

I think you are right: This is a spiritual battle and the Anti Christ Legal Union is definitely our spiritual enemy.

Chris

Bryan · 12-19-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comitatus1

I think you are right: This is a spiritual battle and the Anti Christ Legal Union is definitely our spiritual enemy.

Chris

whatever dude, you can buy into that neocon philosophy, but the ACLU is not the enemy of Christians, they don't have anything against Christianity, what they do have an issue with is government endorsed religion, and so do I.

**thesteve** · 12-19-2006, 12:52 PM

For what it's worth, the ACLU and Wesley Pratt and ACLU Defends "Anti-Santa" Poster

I'm not the hugest fan of the ACLU, but some of the claims against them are absurd.

J_freek · 12-19-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by +Donny

Be careful about accusations against the ACLU. Sure, they do a lot of stupid things, but I find a lot of overblown, unwarranted accusations against them by Christians, which just makes us look paranoid.

A huge difference, though, is that Jezebel was queen of Israel. That was an example of people in Israel, the people of God, worshipping Baal and persecuting the true worshippers of God. It's more like the leadership of a big denomination holding public services to Allah and kicking out all the pastors who protest. Of course, that may not be far off in some denominations, but hey...

Sorry, I'm still working on my opinionated self.

Everything I said was what the superintendent said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by comitatus1

I think you are right: This is a spiritual battle and the Anti Christ Legal Union is definitely our spiritual enemy.

Chris

Is that what it's really called?

(No, I didn't know what it stood for)