[Paolo]

I am one of the drummers of Great Commission Church down here in Honduras.

I just recently found out we are about to play songs like:

1. Merry Christmas to you (traditional song, cover by Christina Aguilera)
2. All I want is you this Christmas ( sung by N'Sync)
3. Don't save it all for Christmas (Celine Dion)
4. All I want for Christmas is you ( Mariah Carey)

songs #2 and #4 are different!

The thing is, the original lyrics for each song are not christian at all, but since this is a Spanish speaking country, the lyrics were not only translated, but changed to fit the gospel. With so many good christian artists around there, why settle down for the wordly artists? Why stoop down low enough to change the lyrics to fit ''our needs''? I think those are just cheap excuses to love the world!

I don't think this whole change-the-lyrics thing is correct, what about you??

[jengoesup]

I don't think changing the lyrics is a bad thing, as long as the congregation doesn't associate the secular artists with the Christmas music. That's the biggest roadblock to using secular music in a worship setting, in my humble opinion.

But yeah seriously...so many great traditional carols out there. N'Sync can and never will hold a candle to traditional renditions of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Do You Hear What I Hear? and O Holy Night. *shakes head* Someone has a 'Theologically Correct Christmas songs?' thread out there, I'll try to find it and post a link here.

*edit* Well there's the link, but turns out you already found it

[Paolo]

as long as the congregation doesn't associate the secular artists with the Christmas music

They won't. But still, I don't they think should do that. It's just dumb.

[guitarman531]

I personally have no problem with re-wording songs. If the music itself is good, why not use it? (I love the band Apologetix).

God created music, and he created us to with the ability to understand/enjoy/write music. I don't believe there's such a thing as "worldly" or ungodly music. Yes, you can have "worldly" and ungodly *lyrics*, but *all* forms of music(Country/pop/rap/metal/hymns/classical/etc) can be worship.

[Paolo]

What's the use of rewording? Christian musicians not good enough to make original songs? Or is it that the slavery to the world has made you look for a spiritual excuse to keep listening to the same music with different lyrics?

So we take the ''best of the world'' and mix it with ''godly'' lyrics so we can offer it to God? I don't think so.

1Pe 1:16 because it has been written, "Continue becoming holy, because _I_ am holy." [Lev 11:44,45; 19:2, 20:7] Analytical-literal translation

We are to be set apart from the world, not conform to it.

[guitarman531]

Originally Posted by Paolo

What's the use of rewording? Christian musicians not good enough to make original songs? Or is it that the slavery to the world has made you look for a spiritual excuse to keep listening to the same music with different lyrics?

So we take the ''best of the world'' and mix it with ''godly'' lyrics so we can offer it to God? I don't think so.

1Pe 1:16 because it has been written, "Continue becoming holy, because _I_ am holy." [Lev 11:44,45; 19:2, 20:7] Analytical-literal translation

We are to be set apart from the world, not conform to it.

Hmmm...Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post.

Music itself is a specific creation of God. There is no such thing as "worldly music". There are blashpemous and ungodly *lyrics*, but there is nothing sinful or ungodly or *worldly* (in the sense you appear to be using it) about any types of music. I don't care if it's music by the Backstreet boys, Mariah Carey, or Fanny Crosby. All of the music can be used to glorify God, because He created it. Not all lyrics are glorifying, but all music can be used to worship God.

Or is it that the slavery to the world has made you look for a spiritual excuse to keep listening to the same music with different lyrics?

Out of curiosity, are you implying that I am a slave to the world?

[Paolo]

haha, not really. It's just that changing the lyrics but keeping the music sounds like a lame excuse for not letting go of that which you love from the world. It's like ripping off the original artists, imitating them to a certain-unhealthy- degree.
Besides, people always remember the original song. No serious band could ever seek to glorify God with ripped off music, which is why Apologetix is labeled as nothing better than ''hilarious''.

[guitarman531]

Originally Posted by Paolo

haha, not really. It's just that changing the lyrics but keeping the music sounds like a lame excuse for not letting go of that which you love from the world. It's like ripping off the original artists, imitating them to a certain-unhealthy- degree.
Besides, people always remember the original song. No serious band could ever seek to glorify God with ripped off music, which is why Apologetix is labeled as nothing better than ''hilarious''.

I'm glad you can laugh about it. I don't take accusations like that lightly.

But we seem to be miscommunicating here...

It's just that changing the lyrics but keeping the music sounds like a lame excuse for not letting go of that which you love from the world.

If all music can glorify God, why do I have to "let go" of anything?

Besides, people always remember the original song.

You've made a *very* broad statement which may not *always* be true. All it takes is one case that says otherwise, and your argument is blown to little pieces.

No serious band could ever seek to glorify God with ripped off music, which is why Apologetix is labeled as nothing better than ''hilarious''

So, you are saying that you can know and judge the hearts of the Apolgetix band members?

Here are some quotes from the Apologetix site regarding what other people have said about them:
From Focus on the Family's "Plugged In" magazine:

From April 2001:
"ApologetiX has built an entire ministry around intelligently crafted song parodies ... and each lyrically overhauled track makes a strong biblical statement."

From December 2002:
"Teens will enjoy smart, musically impressive versions of modern singles ... Parents raised in the days before Christian music was an option will appreciate fresh, spiritualized takes on classic tunes ... In addition to being lots of fun, 'Grace Period' offers families rich discussion material, as well as a tool to help teen steeped in secular music realize that there's more to it than meets the ear."

I see a lot more than just "hilarious" there...

Here's another quote from the site:

International speaker and author Josh McDowell is probably the world's best known speaker on apologetics. He has spoken to millions on the defense of the Christian faith and is the author of more than 50 books, including "Evidence That Demands a Verdict," "More Than a Carpenter," and "When Skeptics Ask."

"Josh McDowell is happy to endorse the Apologetix music ministry," says Ryan Busboom, personal assistant to Josh McDowell. Josh himself added the following:

"What a thrill to work with 'that Christian parody band" Apologetix at the Dare 2 Deliver Youth Conference, hosted by Focus on the Family. The band distinguished themselves from other Christian musicians by including Bible Scripture in all of their lyrics, high-energy evangelism, and humor that was enjoyed by all ages. I can wholeheartedly recommend them to anyone."

Hmmm...seems like Josh McDowell thinks that there's more to them than just "hilarious". I was actually at that Apologetics conference that McDowell is refering to.

What did D. James Kennedy (founder of Coral Ridge Ministries) have to say about the Apologetix discs he was sent?

"The CD and lyrics give audible testimony to your effots to teach sound doctrine and Bible stories to youthful audiences."

Wow...I see nothing there that remotely resembles "funny"...

*edit* If you're going to make statements and accusations like you did in the post above (post #7), you'd better be ready to back them up.

[Paolo]

so many quotes just to defend one petty band...

Just because Josh McDowell approves doesn't make it right.

Jam 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Keeping the music is befriending the authors of such music. It's stating their music (not the lyrics) is friendly to the christian ear, isn't it? A bad tree cannot give good fruit, even if ''christian'' lyrics are grafted to such tree.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by Paolo

so many quotes just to defend one petty band...

Just because Josh McDowell approves doesn't make it right.

Jam 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Keeping the music is befriending the authors of such music. It's stating their music (not the lyrics) is friendly to the christian ear, isn't it? A bad tree cannot give good fruit, even if ''christian'' lyrics are grafted to such tree.

Martin Luther set his hymn A Mighty Fortress is Our God to a pub tune.
Are you calling Luther's hymn satanic?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Paolo

haha, not really. It's just that changing the lyrics but keeping the music sounds like a lame excuse for not letting go of that which you love from the world. It's like ripping off the original artists, imitating them to a certain-unhealthy- degree.
Besides, people always remember the original song. No serious band could ever seek to glorify God with ripped off music, which is why Apologetix is labeled as nothing better than ''hilarious''.

How do you think the salvation army started their street ministry? They took popular songs of the time, sometimes about drinking or other unsavoury subjects (these were all done metaphorically at the time as they couldn't talk about that stuff straight up in songs like now) and changed the lyrics to a gospel message. When asked about it, a representative asked back, "Why should the devil get all the good songs?"

[guitarman531]

Originally Posted by Paolo

so many quotes just to defend one petty band...

Just because Josh McDowell approves doesn't make it right.

Jam 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Keeping the music is befriending the authors of such music. It's stating their music (not the lyrics) is friendly to the christian ear, isn't it? A bad tree cannot give good fruit, even if ''christian'' lyrics are grafted to such tree.

Just because Josh McDowell approves doesn't make it right.

Obviously. However, quoting multiple, reputable sources is better than me just saying "because".

Ok, are you now implying that I (someone you have *never even met*) is an "enemy of God"?

It's stating their music (not the lyrics) is friendly to the christian ear, isn't it?

You obviously haven't been reading what I've been posting. There is nothing inherently evil with listening to (what you call) "worldy" *tunes*. I do admit that lyrics can be blasphemous and ungodly, but there is NOTHING inherently sinful with *any* types of music (whether it's jazz/blues/rock/rap/metal/or Fanny Crosby).

God specifically and intentionally created the human to be able to listen to, write, and enjoy music. All music has been created by God, so it doesn't matter who wrote it. If a certain chord progression or guitar riff sounds good, then it can be used to glorify God.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Paolo

so many quotes just to defend one petty band...

Just because Josh McDowell approves doesn't make it right.

Jam 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Keeping the music is befriending the authors of such music. It's stating their music (not the lyrics) is friendly to the christian ear, isn't it? A bad tree cannot give good fruit, even if ''christian'' lyrics are grafted to such tree.

That's a pretty strong statement. Do you have any proof that using just the instrumental portion of music specifically means we are befriending the world? Or is this just a simple assertion? If so, then you must also be opposed to wearing clothes, or eating food, or driving cars, or living in houses made by non-Christian organizations. I mean, if you wear and eat and drive and live in those, you are saying that their merchandise is friendly to the Christian. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit even with Christian logos, and other various paraphenelia attached to it. Right?

You see how your logic, followed through, is faulty at best.

[Paolo]

stick to your silly parody bands and gimmicks. The Gospel doesn't need music to reach out to people.

Martin Luther set his hymn A Mighty Fortress is Our God.

Are you calling Luther's hymn satanic?

The Bible's pretty clear about it, isn't it? Luther could've made mistakes too, like I may be right now.

How do you think the salvation army started their street ministry? They took popular songs of the time, sometimes about drinking or other unsavoury subjects (these were all done metaphorically at the time as they couldn't talk about that stuff straight up in songs like now) and changed the lyrics to a gospel message. When asked about it, a representative asked back, "Why should the devil get all the good songs?"

So because the Salvation army did it makes it right?

Why should christians rip ''all the good songs''? It's belittling. It says christian musicianship is found wanting, and we need the next worldly single to make the latest parody christian single and ''get even'' with the world.

Do you have any proof that using just the instrumental portion of music specifically means we are befriending the world? Or is this just a simple assertion?

Well, first of all, to make a parody, you need to listen to the original song quite a couple of times to get the music right. In that process, aren't you exposing yourself to lyrics that aren't edifying?

Phi 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.


Second of all, to graft the ''godly'' lyrics, you need to know the rhythm of the original lyrics, which means you have to sing them a couple of times to replace the words, and the Bible says you shouldn't even be thinking about those things!

[ryanxxxx]

sorry i know this is a serious topic but it kinda makes me laugh