[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by J_freek

I'm not sure. All the guys I knew, knew where my parents stood. And I think the only guy who might've ever asked me out, wasn't allowed to date either.
Oh, and I'm pretty guylike, so guys pretty much stand back.



That is a great idea, one I'd never thought off. I'll keep that in mind, for one day.
My parents might agree to something like that.
But we usually shy away from these kinda topics. I guess I'm too embarressed and want to put it off until something has to be done.

I know what you're saying that you're more like "one of the guys" and don't really think about it. But I think it would really be a good idea to talk to your parents (or just mom) about what their thoughts are on it. What is considered a "date"? What is out of bounds? What is allowed.

Just think about this- What if some guy really takes a liking to you, and you really like him too. He asks if you want to date, you say no, I'm not allowed to. He would respond with "oh, why not?", or "so what are you allowed to do"?
I think you'd want to be able to explain that to him. Figuring out where your parents stand on things usually will help out later.

Passinthru: Aaron I have good reason to state that I wasn't ready at 17. I was in an abusive relationship, very suicidal, and doing pharmaceutical drugs to get through my days.

There are some people who aren't in these situations... and it seems like you're basing thoughts about them from your situation. It isn't a fair comparison to say that "this didn't help me, so it won't help them" because your situation is much different.

As the second oldest of five, I can speak to this quite well. It helps to prepare you, but you are not the primary care giver. So you know how to change a dipper, feed a child a bottle, change them, bathe them, play with them - but you are not the one who is up with them at 3 am. You are not the one who is exhausted from caring for the baby all day and still has to put a meal on the table.

Having responsibilities around the house doesn't make you responsible once you are out on your own. I grew up doing the dishes every night and cooking two nights a week. I've lived on my own now for 7 1/2 months. I cook a couple nights a week, the rest of the time it's just easy make a sandwich or reheat something. Dishes? um...yeah...I don't have a clean dish in the house right now.

The girls I mentioned before don't just help out. Many times they are the one's up with the baby at 3am, along with schoolwork, chores, and many times putting the meal on the table as well.
I agree that having resposibilities doesn't mean you will be totally prepared, but it sure does help.

[Epaphras]

Depends on what you mean by "consider". Thinking about getting married someday? 5 year-old girls do that. Being "on the lookout" for a potential mate? Usually happens around college-age or after high school if you are working and don't go to school.

I don't think you should go into a relationship with marriage as the goal. I mean yes you should only be seeing people that would be godly marriage partners but that's a lot of pressure to put on a young relationship. All serious relationships are built first on friendship. During the first few months of a relationship I believe that friendship aspect should be the main focus. After that you could "consider" marriage meaning seriously start praying and talking about it, and getting input about it from godly friends, parents, spiritual leaders, etc.

This is all just opinion based on personal experience so take it as you will.

Bottom line: the "right" age is different for everybody. Some people are ready at 18 or 19 (although this is rare), while most are ready financially, relationally, emotionally, etc. in the early 20s.

[Vershal]

Originally Posted by passinthru

As the second oldest of five, I can speak to this quite well. It helps to prepare you, but you are not the primary care giver. So you know how to change a dipper, feed a child a bottle, change them, bathe them, play with them - but you are not the one who is up with them at 3 am. You are not the one who is exhausted from caring for the baby all day and still has to put a meal on the table.

Thank you for addressing this; in preparing for marriage, you don't need to ask yourself if you can provide for kids -- most people can provide for kids. You need to consider if you're ready to feel as if you will never have another ounce of energy ever again, and then still be able to go to work more than one job if necessary.

It's tough. It's really tough. But my son is a joy.

I knew three girls who got married at 17 (one of whom actually fit the criteria that wjarasmuch described in his last post), and none of those marriages are still intact. Could I have gotten married at 17 and made it work? Yeah. Would it have been wise? Hell no.

And I think that that's the question that needs to be asked, not can I? but should I? Not am I ready? but is this really the right time? Not do I have my parent's blessing? but do I have God's blessing?

Nonetheless, I got married young, at least by today's standards (20), and marriage sobered me up pretty quickly.

[passinthru]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

There are some people who aren't in these situations... and it seems like you're basing thoughts about them from your situation. It isn't a fair comparison to say that "this didn't help me, so it won't help them" because your situation is much different.

Does my situation bring a certain bias with it? Of course it does. Please understand though that my experience has little to do with what my opinion is based on. I have three sisters, one who is 25 and married, one is 19 and one 14 (or is it 15?). I've had a whole lot of friends and I remember high school very vividly. I said what i said in addressing Aaron's comments to me about my stating that I know I wasn't ready for marriage at 17.

[quote

The girls I mentioned before don't just help out. Many times they are the one's up with the baby at 3am, along with schoolwork, chores, and many times putting the meal on the table as well.
I agree that having resposibilities doesn't mean you will be totally prepared, but it sure does help.

Been there done that. They still aren't the PARENT though. It's a different kind of responsibility.

Originally Posted by Vershal

Thank you for addressing this; in preparing for marriage, you don't need to ask yourself if you can provide for kids -- most people can provide for kids. You need to consider if you're ready to feel as if you will never have another ounce of energy ever again, and then still be able to go to work more than one job if necessary.

It's tough. It's really tough. But my son is a joy.

Glad to see you weigh in on this one. That is the reality - and you can't get your Mom to get up with the baby at three am and Dad isn't the one bringing home the paycheck. You are the parent and it is a different kind of responsibility than that of a sibling.

I knew three girls who got married at 17 (one of whom actually fit the criteria that wjarasmuch described in his last post), and none of those marriages are still intact. Could I have gotten married at 17 and made it work? Yeah. Would it have been wise? Hell no.

Interesting.

And I think that that's the question that needs to be asked, not can I? but should I? Not am I ready? but is this really the right time? Not do I have my parent's blessing? but do I have God's blessing?

hmm. Very true.

Nonetheless, I got married young, at least by today's standards (20), and marriage sobered me up pretty quickly.

What do you mean? You got married on my hiatus from online so I'm missing some background, which you totally don't have to share if you don't want to.

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by passinthru

Been there done that. They still aren't the PARENT though. It's a different kind of responsibility.

Glad to see you weigh in on this one. That is the reality - and you can't get your Mom to get up with the baby at three am and Dad isn't the one bringing home the paycheck. You are the parent and it is a different kind of responsibility than that of a sibling.

You're right, it is a different kind of resposibility. All I'm saying is that having some of that resposibility before hand helps.

[J_freek]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

I know what you're saying that you're more like "one of the guys" and don't really think about it. But I think it would really be a good idea to talk to your parents (or just mom) about what their thoughts are on it. What is considered a "date"? What is out of bounds? What is allowed.

Just think about this- What if some guy really takes a liking to you, and you really like him too. He asks if you want to date, you say no, I'm not allowed to. He would respond with "oh, why not?", or "so what are you allowed to do"?
I think you'd want to be able to explain that to him. Figuring out where your parents stand on things usually will help out later.

I have thought abut that actually. But I know for sure they don't want me to do anything until I'm ready for marriage...which an almost 16 year-old is most definately not.

Ironically, the conversation last night with my parents took a turn to talking about guys and all that.
Basically they just said that I was too young, and all that.

[ieatdirt]

Originally Posted by J_freek

I have thought abut that actually. But I know for sure they don't want me to do anything until I'm ready for marriage...which an almost 16 year-old is most definately not.

Ironically, the conversation last night with my parents took a turn to talking about guys and all that.
Basically they just said that I was too young, and all that.

Well, if you don't have anyone particular in mind, don't worry about it. It's much easier to wait.

[jael>rock<]

Originally Posted by J_freek

I have thought abut that actually. But I know for sure they don't want me to do anything until I'm ready for marriage...which an almost 16 year-old is most definately not.

Ironically, the conversation last night with my parents took a turn to talking about guys and all that.
Basically they just said that I was too young, and all that.

i still think it can be a good idea to know exactly what they're thinking. if a guy ever asks you out then you can tell him exactly why they don't want you to yet. and sometimes the guy wants to know how the whole thing works then. that's something i know from experience.

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by jael>rock<

i still think it can be a good idea to know exactly what they're thinking. if a guy ever asks you out then you can tell him exactly why they don't want you to yet. and sometimes the guy wants to know how the whole thing works then. that's something i know from experience.

I agree. Yes you're young, but it won't be long before guys you know might start thinking about you as a "girl" in the way if you know what I mean.
As I guy have kind of been there. I wasn't even thinking about dating this girl.
One day we were talking...on a ski lift actually...and I forget what we were talking about, but I said something jokingly about "they won't let you date untill you're married" and she says "I'm not going to date". At the time is was a new idea to me and was like "What???". If she had just said "my parents won't let me" and no other expanation I would have probably just thought she was wierd. But as it was she gave me a good explanation and eventually sold me on the idea.

[passinthru]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

You're right, it is a different kind of resposibility. All I'm saying is that having some of that resposibility before hand helps.

And having had that kind of responsibility, I'm letting you know that it doesn't prepare you for the reality. I'll let you know when I get married and start a family. As Aaron pointed out though nothing prepares you for parenting other than being a parent. You can learn all the skills with siblings. You can read all the books. But that is still not the real deal.

I grew up with a guy who got his g/f pregnant. He was a druggie, high school drop out, no job. By the time his son was born, he had stopped using drugs and had a stable full-time job. He grew up in the church, the eldest of 4 siblings, had to help out around the house etc. Nothing however prepared him to be a father other than having his son.

[Ted Logan]

I think this conversation is important, and unfortunately, I don't have time to devote the effort to it that it deserves. I may be able to respond to what you guys have said in response to my post, but if not, I hope that at least I've given some things that are worth pondering. I have certainly been thinking about this topic for the last few days, and I thank you for your interaction with my post. I think I understand your position, and though I disagree with it, I'm not entirely sure what the proper position is. To me, although everyone has brought up very good points, the title question remains completely unanswered, and I don't have an answer myself.

[J_freek]

I've been pondering if there is an answer. What is young to one, is old to another.

[Grasshopper359]

Originally Posted by Aaron Adams

You don’t think that the two are connected, but in actuality, some of the studies I have heard of have pinpointed exactly this as one of the items that makes a person an “adult”—they are financially independent and begin a household of their own. Late marriage is actually one of the things that sociologists use to determine the terminus of adolescence. Now, they could be wrong (it’s so arbitrary), but the point is that the two are perceived as connected by others.

I don't think that the two are necessarily completely unrelated. My apologies if I wasn't clear about that. What I'm saying is firstly, I don't believe that if they're related, it's a direct cause-and-effect relationship. That is, that late marriage produces late maturity, as the use of marriage to determine the end of adolescence would suggest. In other words, someone who is older and unmarried is so because they haven't matured enough to marry yet. This, I think, is an egregious oversimplification of a complicated issue. Secondly, I think that if there is a relationship to be established between the two, it's more likely one in which delayed maturity results in delayed marriage, not the other way around. In other words, if they're related, delayed marriage can be a symptom of delayed maturity, but isn't criteria for determining anything in and of itself. I don't buy that someone who marries later, or not at all is necessarily maturing at a slower rate than someone who marries at 17 or 18.

[jael>rock<]

Originally Posted by J_freek

I've been pondering if there is an answer. What is young to one, is old to another.

i'm sure if you ask them, they'll come up with an answer, but if they don't have a good answer to your question, then ask them "so, why am i doing this again?"

and also, i wouldn't talk to fast about "the only guy that might have wanted to ask me out". i'm betting that there were more, but they know that your parents don't allow it, so they don't go there. it's pointless when they know that you can't, so there's no reason for them to.

[Vershal]

Originally Posted by passinthru

What do you mean? You got married on my hiatus from online so I'm missing some background, which you totally don't have to share if you don't want to.

Marriage itself has been nothing but good to me; we've never even had a fight. A lot of the sobering actually came from the months preceding my marriage, but it's not something that I feel really keen on discussing.

The biggest stress after marriage was always a lack of funds; my wife never complained, but at one time we owed several months back rent. We were fortunate in that our utilities and water were included in the flat monthly rent rate, but we also got married just as the job market bottomed out completely. Five hundred dollars rent is pretty steep when you only make $800 a month.