[wjarmusch]

I thought I'd try to bring this back on topic a little...
Here's a thread that proves my point that dating can be pointless:
Dating Scenario
How do you go "out" with someone that you barely know, and what is the point of it? Discuss.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

How do you go "out" with someone that you barely know,

You go "out" (as opposed to staying in) and do stuff (eat, events musical, sporting or otherwise, and other various social activities) in an effort to get to know them better.

and what is the point of it? Discuss.

To get to know them better.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by Chris

You go "out" (as opposed to staying in) and do stuff (eat, events musical, sporting or otherwise, and other various social activities) in an effort to get to know them better.

To get to know them better.

indeed. going out is not tantamount to dating. I go out with my bandmates to a late dinner every wednesday after practice...but i'd hardly say i'm dating either of them.

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by Chris
You go "out" (as opposed to staying in) and do stuff (eat, events musical, sporting or otherwise, and other various social activities) in an effort to get to know them better.

Originally Posted by thesteve

indeed. going out is not tantamount to dating. I go out with my bandmates to a late dinner every wednesday after practice...but i'd hardly say i'm dating either of them.

Did either of you guys read the thread I linked to? If you had I think you would know what I mean. I meant going out as in a date.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

Did either of you guys read the thread I linked to? If you had I think you would know what I mean. I meant going out as in a date.

And going out as in a date is generally done how and with the intent I outlined. The thread you linked to is hardly the norm in life, but this date could have resulted in learning about the stuff he didn't know. (with the date ending poorly when he had to ask what her last name was).

[SilverNitrate]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

I thought I'd try to bring this back on topic a little...
Here's a thread that proves my point that dating can be pointless:
Dating Scenario
How do you go "out" with someone that you barely know, and what is the point of it? Discuss.

Of course dating can be pointless. So can courting.
Furthermore, it seems you're continuing to assume we're advocating casual dating.
People who date to find their future spouse is not pointless.

As for how you go "out" with someone you barely know...
You see a girl you find attractive... the two of you get "sparks" when you look at one another... you ask her if she wants to go somewhere with you... she says yes... you go and have fun getting to know one another. If you still like her, ask her out again. You'll get to know her just like you would a complete stranger that you end up becoming friends with.
What's the point of this? To get to know her better.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by beanbag

well. the last part was just in reference to the no kissing =/= total intimidation on the wedding night thing. the rest was written as an american. there is not really a sex patrol here as far as I know that will execute people for not consummating on the wedding night, so if there are fears, why not just wait or something?

Hey, I didn't kiss before the wedding, and we did not wait till the second day. There wasn't any initimidation... We both ran out of calories, but had snacks stashed in our bags. Hmmm, technically it probably was May 28th after we got settled into the room and such as we left the reception at 10:30, and had a 45 minute limo ride...

The reason why we didn't kiss is this: My wife was afraid she did not have enough self control to stop things if we got started kissing. That was her stated reason to me? Did we struggle to keep that? Oh yeah! I am a very affectionate guy and it was really hard. So much so that I got really annoyed, and upset many times with frustration, but one of the key points to dating in a godly manner is this. (It doesn't apply in traditional courtship per say as you do not set the limits.) You need to always go with the limits of the stricter person. Its the same principle as meat sacrificed to idols. (Note this does not include things the Bible declares wrong.)

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

Did either of you guys read the thread I linked to? If you had I think you would know what I mean. I meant going out as in a date.

the title of the thread says "dating scenario" but the conversation says, "i'm supposed to go out with this girl..." or something to that effect. You can go out with someone you're physically attracted to and not be dating them.

I just didn't see that thread as being as blatantly pointless as you portrayed it

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by SilverNitrate

Of course dating can be pointless. So can courting.
Furthermore, it seems you're continuing to assume we're advocating casual dating.
People who date to find their future spouse is not pointless.

As for how you go "out" with someone you barely know...
You see a girl you find attractive... the two of you get "sparks" when you look at one another... you ask her if she wants to go somewhere with you... she says yes... you go and have fun getting to know one another. If you still like her, ask her out again. You'll get to know her just like you would a complete stranger that you end up becoming friends with.
What's the point of this? To get to know her better.

First of all I understand that you're advocating 'serious dating' as opposed to 'casual dating'.
But in response to the bolded part. That still seems a little...I don't know how to explain it. I don't want to say it seems stupid, I guess just not the smartest thing to do. It seems like your relationship is then based on physical attraction, which can only take you so far. As a christian I believe that the thing you should be attracted to is the persons relationship with Christ, not their looks. Their 'Character' should be beautiful, not just their looks. Because if a relationship is to last it can't just be based on physical affection. Think about it... she's not neccesarily going to be physically beautiful or 'sexy' when you're in your 50's. Sure it should be someone you're attracted to, but your relationship shouldn't be based just on "oh, that person looks hot, let me find out if they claim to be a christian and ask them out."
That brings me to another point- A lot of people will say that they are christians, but when you get down to it they aren't serious about Christ. It seems to me like you'd be giving too much time to these people that you don't even know if they're what you're looking for.

And I don't care how casual a relationship is, you're going to form some type of connection, and it's going to hurt to have to give it up. You get emotionally connected to the person that you date for 6 months and then break up with. It just seems like you should know more about someone before you jump into a relationship.
The same can go with courtship too, I believe you should have a good relationship and be friends first before you get into any serious relationship. I know that might not be the 'traditional' way for courtship or dating, but that's why I'm kindof in the middle of the two, neither fit what I'm really looking for.

[SilverNitrate]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

First of all I understand that you're advocating 'serious dating' as opposed to 'casual dating'.
But in response to the bolded part. That still seems a little...I don't know how to explain it. I don't want to say it seems stupid, I guess just not the smartest thing to do. It seems like your relationship is then based on physical attraction, which can only take you so far. As a christian I believe that the thing you should be attracted to is the persons relationship with Christ, not their looks. Their 'Character' should be beautiful, not just their looks. Because if a relationship is to last it can't just be based on physical affection. Think about it... she's not neccesarily going to be physically beautiful or 'sexy' when you're in your 50's. Sure it should be someone you're attracted to, but your relationship shouldn't be based just on "oh, that person looks hot, let me find out if they claim to be a christian and ask them out."

How do you become friends with the people you are friends with? At one point they started off as a complete stranger. So... if it's ok to slowly get to know someone over time... hanging out with them and what not... and sooner or later become great friends... then why can't you do the same with someone of the opposite sex?

The relationship isn't based off of looks alone (at least it shouldn't be). The most beautiful woman that God would ever create could walk up to me... and if she's a complete biznitch then I'm not going to want anything to do with her. There's got to be some sort of connection before I'd attempt to just ask a girl out. Furthermore, most relationships I've been in have started off with me and the girl just hanging out... not dating... just hanging out... and then we decided to date.

I think we're having some sort of a miscommunication here. I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't just walk up and ask out a girl simply because she looks good. I might ask her for her phone number... and if she said yes then I'd call her and start getting to know her. If I like who she is, then I'll think about asking her out.

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

That brings me to another point- A lot of people will say that they are christians, but when you get down to it they aren't serious about Christ. It seems to me like you'd be giving too much time to these people that you don't even know if they're what you're looking for.

So... it's a waste of time to get to know non-Christians?
I don't think it is. I wouldn't date a non-believer... but I would still hang out with and go places with them.
Before the "pre-date" screening, I'd definitely ask the girl about her beliefs. If they didn't match with mine, then I'd just keep the relationship as a friends only thing. If they did match up, then I'd consider asking her out.

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

And I don't care how casual a relationship is, you're going to form some type of connection, and it's going to hurt to have to give it up.

I understand that we build connections with the people we get to know... but like I said a second ago... during the "pre-dating" process, if you decide to just be friends...why would you have to give up the friendship?

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

You get emotionally connected to the person that you date for 6 months and then break up with. It just seems like you should know more about someone before you jump into a relationship.
The same can go with courtship too, I believe you should have a good relationship and be friends first before you get into any serious relationship.

Say we're friends first... then we decide to "court" or "date"... then later we break up... we run the risk of destroying a perfectly good friendship.

I'd rather get to know someone then date them from there... that way... in three months when we are no longer talking to each other... it's not that big of a deal. Sure, it sucks for a period of time... but it's not like I lost a best friend or anything.

I know this isn't what you're saying... but it seems like you're assuming that dating relationships are going to end in a break-up whereas a courting relationship will never end in a break-up.
It's just as possible to meet, get to know, fall in love with and marry a complete stranger as it is to get to know, fall in love with and marry a good friend.

I guess I just don't see why this sounds like "not the smartest thing to do."

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by SilverNitrate

How do you become friends with the people you are friends with? At one point they started off as a complete stranger. So... if it's ok to slowly get to know someone over time... hanging out with them and what not... and sooner or later become great friends... then why can't you do the same with someone of the opposite sex?

You can do it with the opposite sex...why not? Sure, hang out with them, get to know them better, but why jump to 'dating' right away?

So... it's a waste of time to get to know non-Christians?
I don't think it is. I wouldn't date a non-believer... but I would still hang out with and go places with them.
Before the "pre-date" screening, I'd definitely ask the girl about her beliefs. If they didn't match with mine, then I'd just keep the relationship as a friends only thing. If they did match up, then I'd consider asking her out.

No, it's not a waste of time to get to know non-Christians. We need to become friends with unbelievers to reach out to them, of course.
What I'm saying is that it seems like you're not spending a whole lot of time on evaluating this person's character. Now when I say 'you' understand I'm not just speaking to you, but others as well. It also seems that people are acting more upon 'feeling' when they ask someone out. How many people actually pray about who they ask out...and wait for an answer before they continue? I'm not saying that no-one does, just that it would be a wise thing to do.

I understand that we build connections with the people we get to know... but like I said a second ago... during the "pre-dating" process, if you decide to just be friends...why would you have to give up the friendship?

You wouldn't, I don't think I said you would have to.

Say we're friends first... then we decide to "court" or "date"... then later we break up... we run the risk of destroying a perfectly good friendship.

I'd rather get to know someone then date them from there... that way... in three months when we are no longer talking to each other... it's not that big of a deal. Sure, it sucks for a period of time... but it's not like I lost a best friend or anything.

So it sounds to me like you're afraid to date anyone you know well so you don't lose them as a friend. Makes sense I guess, unless you're actually looking for someone to spend the rest of your life with who is going to be your best friend. Personally I'm going to want to have a very strong friendship with someone before I move past the 'just friends' stage. I would know their true character and their relationship with Christ...If you're dating (or courting) someone who you barely know, it seems like you would have much more of a chance of breaking up with multiple people before you find 'the one'. Personally I want to go through the least ammount of 'romantic' relationship breakups as possible. I would like to know that it's someone I'd consider marrying before moving past 'just friends'.

I know this isn't what you're saying... but it seems like you're assuming that dating relationships are going to end in a break-up whereas a courting relationship will never end in a break-up.
It's just as possible to meet, get to know, fall in love with and marry a complete stranger as it is to get to know, fall in love with and marry a good friend.

You're right, that's not what I'm saying. A courting relationship can fail just as easily as dating...and I immagine that it would hurt worse because of higher expectations. I'm saying this with both systems, you have a better chance of less breakups get to know them first.
It's been said before in this thread (I think BSPE said it) that you don't just "fall in love" with someone. It's more than that. Sure you can go with what your feelings tell you. Or you can take more time and evaluate them, pray about it, talk to them & others about a relationship, and then move into it.

I guess I just don't see why this sounds like "not the smartest thing to do."

Do you see where I'm coming from now? At this point I'm not advocating courtship or dating , I'm talking generally about any relationship that you move past "just friends". In any way it seems to me like it's important that you truly know someone well before you start anything, otherwise it's just trial & error. That's really what dating is...isn't it?
Trial & Error; you meet someone (or know someone) who you 'like', or feel 'sparks' or 'warm & tingly' or whatever your requirements may be and go through as many relationships as you need to find one that works. Yes it can work, and eventually you'll find someone.
But, it seems like there is a better way to do it, to take your time and really get to know someone before you move into a serious relationship.
That make sense?