[Thamar]

Originally Posted by Simo

My Fiance and i have been dating for close to three years. We have a very deep and solid relationship. We are getting married in 9 months from today.

HA I just proved you wrong. Dating also leads into marriage, in fact it seems to me, and i have never been shown otherwise that dating is exactly the same as courtship ---- once you get rid of all your secular heavily Americanly tainted ideas of dating.


Americanly.... feel free to use it some time.

I'm not an American.

Dating and courtship are used so interchangable that there sometimes is no difference between them. One may say when you decided to get married you were no longer dating and it now becomes courtship. And here I agree with the person who said that it's just semantics.

[wjarmusch]

HA I just proved you wrong. Dating also leads into marriage, in fact it seems to me, and i have never been shown otherwise that dating is exactly the same as courtship ---- once you get rid of all your secular heavily Americanly tainted ideas of dating.

Dude, Simo be nice.

However, I agree with you that it's the secular crap that screws up dating.
In my opinion The whole thing is a word game.
The politically correct thing is "courtship" but as my best friend says it can easily be turned into "glorified dating". So I'm not going to come and tell people dating is wrong. It depends on how you go about it.
In general Dating is a physical relationship which is not always serious, and it's not a commitment unless you decide it to be. Courtship is generally parentally approved and looking for the person to marry.
Really it doesn't matter what you call it, either can work and either can be wrong.
As you said in your notes you want to control your emotions when it comes the the physical part of it. You also want to make sure you're looking for the person that you're going to marry, not just doing it for fun, or another reason.
On the other hand you don't even have to do either. I know a few girls that aren't dating, and looking for courtship, they're just "waiting". When they find someone that they know well as just a friend and they think it might be going somewhere they'll talk to the guy, pray about it. Then just continue to get to know each other better and get engaged. Not neccessarily calling it anything. It's all word games.

[bobthecockroach]

Mmmmmmmmm, recycled posts. I posted this to another thread about courtship.

Originally Posted by bobthecockroach

As you can see, Visirale, a rational discussion of courtship is impossible. That is because people can never agree on a definition (or even that there should be one) and therefore, twist the words to mean whatever they want. I, however, believe definitions are important and necessary which makes it next to impossible for me to enter into such discussion. In any event, let me share what I think about the subject, starting with definitions.

"Dating" is a word that I would say defines itself. I would say that its self-proclaimed definition is a romantic relationship for its own sake with the attitude of "let's see what happens." If you don't believe me, watch real, average people. This is what their dating relationship are 99% of the time.

Courting, on the other hand, is specifically defined. The problem is that it is specifically defined many different ways. I would say that a good standard definition of courtship is a romantic relationship for the purpose of testing whether a marriage would work. It is also generally held that it should be entered into with prayer and communication with the parents involved and should be conducted with accountability.

Going from these definitions, I would say the biggest difference between dating and courtship is intent. Dating focuses on itself while courtship focuses on a specific purpose, marriage.

Now, before the other people in this thread bombard me with all sorts of criticisms and complaints, let me point something out. Dating and courtship are both merely types of a larger whole, romantic relationships. When you say that they are the same you are relegating them a position of meaninglessness. If dating and courtship both simply mean "romantic relationship" then there's no sense in using them at all! So stop! Let them be used by people who wish to define them.

In any event, Visirale, the important thing is that you choose how you wish to conduct your relationships. If you wish to conduct your relationships in a manner consistent with courtship (as defined above), then great! Do it no matter what the naysayers say. If you think you need to give some more thought to how you want to conduct relationships, do it! Maybe you'll come up with your own way and call it Visiralization. If you do, just make sure you define it... and copyright the definition or something.

[Simo]

Originally Posted by wjarmusch

Dude, Simo be nice.

However, I agree with you that it's the secular crap that screws up dating.
In my opinion The whole thing is a word game.
The politically correct thing is "courtship" but as my best friend says it can easily be turned into "glorified dating". So I'm not going to come and tell people dating is wrong. It depends on how you go about it.
In general Dating is a physical relationship which is not always serious, and it's not a commitment unless you decide it to be. Courtship is generally parentally approved and looking for the person to marry.
Really it doesn't matter what you call it, either can work and either can be wrong.
As you said in your notes you want to control your emotions when it comes the the physical part of it. You also want to make sure you're looking for the person that you're going to marry, not just doing it for fun, or another reason.
On the other hand you don't even have to do either. I know a few girls that aren't dating, and looking for courtship, they're just "waiting". When they find someone that they know well as just a friend and they think it might be going somewhere they'll talk to the guy, pray about it. Then just continue to get to know each other better and get engaged. Not neccessarily calling it anything. It's all word games.

I was being nice.

I was simply stating that Christian's bias against dating, especially on this site comes down to the fact that people often can't get past this idea that 'dating' is an evil secular thing where you don't care about a serious and long-term relationship but rather the relationships revolves around trying to get into each other pants.

Its stupid.

The idea of courtship that i keep reading is crazy. Why would you need to ask someones father to 'court' them. You would be much better off each talking to your own parents, the ones you actually know and can hold a deep and comfortable conversation with. This idea of courtship also leads to the idea that when you start courting someone you have to marry them. I wonder how many people ended up in marriages because they felt locked into 'courtship' and marriage and didn't have the guts to break it of. The concepts are arcahic and not practical most of the time.

[passinthru]

Okay, By the definitions the cockroach posted, I'm in a relationship that takes some things from dating and other things from courtship. *shrug* I cring when I hear people starting to go off on the whole dating is evil and Christians should court.

Originally Posted by Thamar

Four things for good courtship

1. The wisdom to properly evaluate the character of the person. What you see is what you get. You are to be willing to be able to live with what you see. You can’t seek to change them latter. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to change a person not yours.

And this differs from dating how? Does courting automatically give you this wisdom to evaluate character?

2. You have to have consistency in dating. Breaking and making up will not help you in marriage. You can’t not be able to bench-press 150 lbs and then think you can move up to 500 lbs and expect it to work. You can’t expect to not get along during dating and expect marriage will change things.

Not all dating relationships are the high school drama kind. There is consistency in dating. Not all dating is characterised by breaking up and making up (or making out as the case may be).

Too many people read dating and think of infatious high school (for lack of a better term) relationships. The kind that you end up with a new guy every week/month/6 months.

3. You have to have the (High level ) sensitivity of communication. Communicate sooner rather than later whether you want to spend more time with each other. Don’t drag it on. Be honest with each other about the direction you’d like it to go.

and you can't do this in dating why? This is just pretty standard relationship guidlines here. Communication is vital to the success of any relationship, romantic or otherwise.

4. You have to have patients in letting the relationship go along (grow without letting it escalate too quickly). Don’t share too much too deep and too soon. Don’t spend too much time together. Don’t bond too quickly. Keep your hands off each other. Don’t kiss before you can be committed to being responsible to hold her heart.

Here's the catch with courtship for me. We get to the rules section. The Old Testament of Christian romantic relationships.

That's actually my main beef with courtship. It's legalistic.

If you really wanted to be Biblical though, let's just bring back arranged marriages. That's the example that I see in Scripture. [/sarcasm]

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by passinthru

Okay, By the definitions the cockroach posted, I'm in a relationship that takes some things from dating and other things from courtship. *shrug* I cring when I hear people starting to go off on the whole dating is evil and Christians should court.
And this differs from dating how? Does courting automatically give you this wisdom to evaluate character?

Not all dating relationships are the high school drama kind. There is consistency in dating. Not all dating is characterised by breaking up and making up (or making out as the case may be).

Too many people read dating and think of infatious high school (for lack of a better term) relationships. The kind that you end up with a new guy every week/month/6 months.

and you can't do this in dating why? This is just pretty standard relationship guidlines here. Communication is vital to the success of any relationship, romantic or otherwise.

Here's the catch with courtship for me. We get to the rules section. The Old Testament of Christian romantic relationships.

That's actually my main beef with courtship. It's legalistic.

If you really wanted to be Biblical though, let's just bring back arranged marriages. That's the example that I see in Scripture. [/sarcasm]

But Katie, there is such variety in the Old Testament. Buying brides with genitals of your deceased enemies, finding a cute girl dancing and kidnapping her, oh, and lets not forget, telling mommy and daddy to go get the cute girl you are afraid to talk to.[/sarcastic]

Seriously, those are all in the Old Testament, with none of them being condemned.

I dated my wife for several years before marriage. It was dating with a strong attempt to be biblical.

Courting is just an antiquated word for dating. In fact I prefer the even older term, sparking. In fact, to my grandparents, courting is a more risque word than dating. So to be really holy, one must not date. They must spark. I have declared this because if the antiquated term is better than the modern, the obsolete must bring 17 holiness brownie points. (read as serious with a glint in eye, its true till the They must spark... part)

The fact is though, lust is always wrong. Always. I can't say my premarital relationship with my wife was without lust. It wasn't, but we did our best to keep it so.

Ultimately, I think the wisest approach here is the same as the rest of life.



Ecclesiastes 12:13The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.14For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.



Live with this in mind, and who cares if its called dating, courting, sparking, or whatever?

[wjarmusch]

Originally Posted by Simo

The idea of courtship that i keep reading is crazy. Why would you need to ask someones father to 'court' them.

Actually, it doesn't seem like such a bad Idea to me to talk to the girls father/parents about it. Why not? A lot of the families I know are very close and parents are fairly protective and involved in their kids lives. I am actually know many of their parents quite well. If he's going to be your father-in-law someday if may be a good idea to make sure he's ok with what you're doing. Have good communication & set the rules.

On the other hand, I agree with you that some of it is crazy & over the top, and can easily be changed to whatever you want it to be.

And I agree with Kate that dating can be done bibically and doesn't have to be the stupid high school version of it. Unfortunately that's what's portrayed in most TV shows & movies.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Joseph352

so, Nate, where do you stand with courting and dating?

I have a girlfriend, if that's what you're asking. She's cool, too. Yeah, I pretty much love her.

[OctaviusIII]

My concern is the push towards more commitment in younger relationships. Dating back in the middle of the 20th century was testing the waters, so to speak, with a variety of people. If you found someone you hit it off with, you started going steady. If you kept going, and it kept going well, then you got engaged. Simple, easy, and varied enough to allow people to get to know people they might not have otherwise known.

[Thamar]

The question is not should we date or should we be courting. The intent is to inform the young and unlearned on some of the pit falls in either of them (at leaste on my part) Take for instance this one:

Originally Posted by Thamar

1. The wisdom to properly evaluate the character of the person. What you see is what you get. You are to be willing to be able to live with what you see. You can’t seek to change them latter. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to change a person not yours.

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Many young people and sometimes even adults get into relationships and the end result being marriage yet they did not take the time to know the person and see them for who they are.

A lot of them expect things to get better as time passes so they overlook those little things (foxes) that can cause big probelms later on. their modus operandi is that "he/she" will change. We will work it out. The plea here is that we need to use wisdom to evaluate the character of the person and to judge wisely if we can handle them as they are.