Homosexuality

pompernikkle · 01-22-2007, 05:22 AM

Gee.. I need to ressurect this thread.. well, want to... anyway.. I go to a Christian college. One of the seniors there recently "came out" and told everyone he's gay... he's a professing Christian, and claims that he can love God better by finding a husband and loving that husband as well.. he goes into scripture and says that the greek words don't necessarily mean "homosexuality" but in general "sexual immorality"... I'm rather thrown by this... he claims that homosexuality is NOT a sin, but a way to be who God really intended him to be..
I'm not super close with him, I've only had like, one or two classes with him, but it's really disturbing me for some reason... so I guess from posting this, I just want reassurement that he's wrong... basically.. thanks...

DeaconK · 01-22-2007, 07:51 AM

"Hate the sin, love the sinner"

Chris · 01-22-2007, 10:01 AM

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable.

Yes, pompernikkle. It is indeed sinful. but as Deacon said, love the sinner, hate the sin.

Reedolo · 01-22-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompernikkle

Gee.. I need to ressurect this thread.. well, want to... anyway.. I go to a Christian college. One of the seniors there recently "came out" and told everyone he's gay... he's a professing Christian, and claims that he can love God better by finding a husband and loving that husband as well.. he goes into scripture and says that the greek words don't necessarily mean "homosexuality" but in general "sexual immorality"... I'm rather thrown by this... he claims that homosexuality is NOT a sin, but a way to be who God really intended him to be..
I'm not super close with him, I've only had like, one or two classes with him, but it's really disturbing me for some reason... so I guess from posting this, I just want reassurement that he's wrong... basically.. thanks...

Yeah... they will try to say that this or that greek word actually means something different, in an attempt to justify their behavior. But there's really no getting around the fact that the Bible says homosexual behavior is wrong:

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.

What else could it mean for men to "give up natural relations with women" and be "consumed with passion for one another". Some translations read "burn with lust for one another". It's obviously talking about homosexual behavior.

I have met Christians who are homosexual, and their faith always strikes me as being very superficial and shallow. It's a salad-bar Christianity... they pick and choose the parts of Christianity that they want and disregard the parts that conflict with their own sinful lifestyle. They say they believe in the Bible but the conveniently ignore the passages that say homosexuality is wrong, or they try to say that those passages mean something different by citing some greek words and verb tenses and nonsense like that.

The above passage is perfectly clear that heterosexual relations are natural, while homosexual relations are unnatural. I'm not willing to accept that thousands of Greek scholars over the past 2000 years have been mistranslating the Bible to make it say that homosexuality is wrong. Either the translators are right, and the homosexuals are wrong, or the homosexuals are right and millions of real Greek scholars are wrong. It's a no-brainer.

At the same time, keep in mind that the action itself is what is sinful. A person with homosexual feelings can still be a Christian, as long as they don't act on those feelings. They have to fight the temptation to do such things, and they must learn to detest any kind of sinful behavior that would harm their relationship with God.

peace

LabyrinthChick · 01-22-2007, 10:09 PM

They're right... love the person, hate the sin. It's okay to be friends with them, but you have to be prepared to draw a line.

pompernikkle · 01-23-2007, 04:52 AM

thanks ^_^ it's so hard for me to draw the line between being their friend and drawing the line though... How exactly do you do that? (I usually prefer people to tell me EXACTLY what is required of me, what I should do, etc., so I feel confidant in what I am doing... )

thanks for the "encouragement"/info...

Diablo_Slayer · 01-23-2007, 07:23 AM

yeh u just need to be there for her and tell her that it is all right

LabyrinthChick · 01-23-2007, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompernikkle

thanks ^_^ it's so hard for me to draw the line between being their friend and drawing the line though... How exactly do you do that? (I usually prefer people to tell me EXACTLY what is required of me, what I should do, etc., so I feel confidant in what I am doing... )

thanks for the "encouragement"/info...

Be their friend, encourage them, love them, but don't help them with their sin.
It's like being friends with a known alcoholic... it's okay to be their friend, but obviously you would not take them to buy alcohol or buy it for them.

pompernikkle · 01-23-2007, 07:51 AM

mm, I see... btw, he's a guy... not a girl... thanks again~!

bobthecockroach · 01-23-2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompernikkle

(I usually prefer people to tell me EXACTLY what is required of me, what I should do, etc., so I feel confidant in what I am doing... )

Well, that's just not realistic. You have to make some judgments for yourself.

Niflmir · 01-23-2007, 09:37 AM

Although I agree with the statement of hate the sin not the sinner, I think that the statement might be misplaced here.

I don't think any industrialised, modern nation would accept the teachings of Leviticus as being a representation of what is good. So, since I assume that each of us comes from a modern nation, I could easily find things that all of us ignore as wrong in Leviticus, interpreting Leviticus as historical representations of law is perfectly acceptable.

As for Romans, that book too comes from a different historical context than our current times. Unlike the message espoused, again, every one in the civilised world, and especially citizens of the United States of America would say that it is right to rebel against wrongful rulers. They would not say that rulers are God arranged and inerrably righteous.

I am one of those very people. I admit wholly to ignoring certain, barbaric old laws and messages. I hold that a celebration of love for people and an acceptance of how God made us is what Christ told us to do and the only way to move forward towards a world without hate.

Chris · 01-23-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niflmir

Although I agree with the statement of hate the sin not the sinner, I think that the statement might be misplaced here.

I don't think any industrialised, modern nation would accept the teachings of Leviticus as being a representation of what is good. So, since I assume that each of us comes from a modern nation, I could easily find things that all of us ignore as wrong in Leviticus, interpreting Leviticus as historical representations of law is perfectly acceptable.

As for Romans, that book too comes from a different historical context than our current times. Unlike the message espoused, again, every one in the civilised world, and especially citizens of the United States of America would say that it is right to rebel against wrongful rulers. They would not say that rulers are God arranged and inerrably righteous.

I am one of those very people. I admit wholly to ignoring certain, barbaric old laws and messages. I hold that a celebration of love for people and an acceptance of how God made us is what Christ told us to do and the only way to move forward towards a world without hate.

So you're suggesting that we ignore scripture in an effort for people to like us more or to fit in? That's all I'm getting out of this.

Niflmir · 01-23-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

So you're suggesting that we ignore scripture in an effort for people to like us more or to fit in? That's all I'm getting out of this.

No, I am suggesting that you don't disect scripture and proclaim that the fragment you show has a meaning outside of the larger context it appears in. I am suggesting that if you do such a thing you can justify the most abhorrent of deeds.

Chris · 01-23-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niflmir

No, I am suggesting that you don't disect scripture and proclaim that the fragment you show has a meaning outside of the larger context it appears in. I am suggesting that if you do such a thing you can justify the most abhorrent of deeds.

The context I took the verse from is all about unlawful sexual relations. It's notout of context and I don't recall suggesting that anything abhorent be done to the violating parties. I'm just showing a pretty straigh forward verse that says homosexual sin is against the will of God.

Niflmir · 01-23-2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

The context I took the verse from is all about unlawful sexual relations. It's notout of context and I don't recall suggesting that anything abhorent be done to the violating parties. I'm just showing a pretty straigh forward verse that says homosexual sin is against the will of God.

But that section comes from the book of Leviticus, whose context is one of historical law. That is the larger context I am speaking of. It contains a multitude of other laws that you I think you would agree are wrong, it is an illustration of what was once wrong, not a code with which we should currently live our lives.