[Reuben]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Ugh. Just ugh. Don't think I'm going to bother seeing this one.

reasoning? I know you're not a fan of Begins, but why so quick to pass on this one?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Reuben

reasoning? I know you're not a fan of Begins, but why so quick to pass on this one?

I don't know, the first one just lacked personality. Gotham didn't look distinctive, Bruce Wayne was shown either out of character, or very boring.

The pointless love interest Rachel isn't in the new film from what I've heard, so they're not even trying to make up for the flaws of the first film, they're just ignoring them.

And Heath Ledger as the Joker?

Basically, my main problem with "Batman Begins" is it wasn't a good use of the Batman mythos. Which isn't a fan boy comment. You see a Shakespeare adaptation of "Hamlet," you expect to see Hamlet up there. I see "Batman," I expect Batman. It's okay to recreate stuff. The acclaimed "Batman: the Animated Series" reinvented a great deal of Batman's Rogues Gallery, and some of their creations (like Joker's sidekick, Harley Quinn, or Mr. Freeze as a sympathetic guy) were brilliant, better than what had been done before in much of the Bat-mythos.

Nolan's film was a B+ film that basically created several new characters, gave them Batman cast names, and set them in a stock locale. He mishandled Batman and Gotham, and the only things he got right or reinvented in the proper spirit (Scarecrow and Gordon) didn't get enough screentime and had to compete with crap like Rachel.

So do I think Nolan can give me a worthwhile Joker? No, he's going to create a semi-interesting character from scratch with Ledger, and call it the Joker.

I mean, if I went to the movies or read books or anything like that just to have special effects or action sequences tossed at me, I'd go see it. But I go to be entertained, and that means challenged and engaged.

I didn't like "Superman Returns," mainly for story and casting, but visually it was Superman. Metropolis was Metropolis, the world felt like Superman. "Batman Begins" didn't feel like Batman.

It was the opposite of "Batman and Robin." There, it was so cartoonish and exaggeration and over-the-top, it lost the heart. "Begins" drained the heart by ignoring what made characters great, giving flat renditions of them, and attempting to create a new world instead of reinventing Gotham along proper lines.

[thyfunkispure]

I am really curious how they make Joker look, if they give him a cheesy grin or a demented smile. I will most likely go see this movie when it comes out.(when?) Andy Serkis would have made a better Joker than Ledger. I guess I honestly don't care what happens to Batman, I just hope they don't water down the essence of what is The Joker.

[Casey]

Tim Curry would've made a great joker.

My random .02.

[MrCrabby]

Originally Posted by Casey

Tim Curry would've made a great joker.

My random .02.

My twisted vote would have gone for Dennis Leary. But, like a cure for frothy urine, we can't always have what we want, now can we?

[JerryLove]

No matter. I WILL go see this. I loved Begins, and it gets credit for being the film that got me into comics, which is awesome.

You managed to avoid it through two Spidys and three X-Men?

I loved Christian Bale as Batman. I dunno if they can top the last one though.

Kill the campy ending and roof-top-model-car fight. Involve me more in Bruce's internal struggle.

Also: Loose the love interest.

[MJ_Avalanche]

Originally Posted by JerryLove

You managed to avoid it through two Spidys and three X-Men?

Never had much interest in either franchise, so I've never any of the movies until I saw Spidey 1 pretty recently. I've liked Batman since I was a little kid, though.

But Spidey was a good movie, but again, not much of a fan of the hero. The only characters that I've liked from either series are Venom and Cyclops. If Venom makes more than a three second appearance in Spidey 3, I'll go see it. If not, meh.

Batman, however, I've always been drawn to and Begins just set it off that I should start reading comics.

[supahfly23]

meh. this sounds like another movie going down the "batman: stinkhole of movies that sould never have been made"

heath ledger as the joker? that is the most absurd thing i have ever heard! there are so many people who would do such a better job with that role (some of those on my list have already been mentioned). this is just a "Well, was was really good in that gay cowboy movie..." decision, (or maybe a ploy to get the female gender to see it). but that doesn't even follow sane logic. i haven't seen anything in his career that supports the notion that he could do a remotely good job as the joker. Jack Nicholson set the bar for joker, and i don't think heath ledger can even jump that high. you can't handle the truth, can ya?

like a fat kid in anything athletic, i'm out

[Reuben]

Originally Posted by supahfly23

i haven't seen anything in his career that supports the notion that he could do a remotely good job as the joker.

To me this sounds like the same thing as not being able to get a job because you don't have enough experience. Well how do you get experience? You need a job.

The fact that Ledger hasn't done anything like the Joker is hardly a basis to rule that he'll be a poor one. Might he be? Certainly. Might he surprise everyone? Certainly. In my opinion, belief one way or the other right now is premature.

EDIT: I should probably mention that I never particularly took to Nicholson as the Joker. He didn't really set any bars for me.

[psalm63adam]

I think Guy Pearce would have made a great Joker, personally. And he's already worked with Christopher Nolan (Memento).

[JerryLove]

EDIT: I should probably mention that I never particularly took to Nicholson as the Joker. He didn't really set any bars for me.

Nor did I. I found his portrail too bafoonish.

I still think our best BM villan portraial was scarecrow. I suppose my backup has to go to Catwoman.

[elijah77jc]

Originally Posted by supahfly23

meh. this sounds like another movie going down the "batman: stinkhole of movies that sould never have been made"

heath ledger as the joker? that is the most absurd thing i have ever heard! there are so many people who would do such a better job with that role (some of those on my list have already been mentioned). this is just a "Well, was was really good in that gay cowboy movie..." decision, (or maybe a ploy to get the female gender to see it). but that doesn't even follow sane logic. i haven't seen anything in his career that supports the notion that he could do a remotely good job as the joker. Jack Nicholson set the bar for joker, and i don't think heath ledger can even jump that high. you can't handle the truth, can ya?

like a fat kid in anything athletic, i'm out

you know... if the first batman wasn't made until now, I would never have even considered Jack Nicholson to be a candidate for the Joker.

perhaps we should have more of an open mind?

[DaGeek]

I never would have imagined Heath Ledger as Joker, but it could work... Not sure how, but they had to choose him for something. It's not like the only motives behind hiring actors is target audiences. If the movie sucks, you won't get as many people as if it didn't. Even directors know this. Heath is not who I would pick right now, but he's got an impressive resumé. I'd be surprised if he can fill this role well, but if he does, more power to him. Tim Curry would have made an excellent Joker, though

[Reuben]

I couldn't recall who Tim Curry was off the top of my head, so I looked him up and have to say...

the guy would have been about 30 years too old. Unless I've got the wrong Tim Curry.

[Jaymze13]

"Begins" was way better than 2, 3 and (obviously) 4. It rivalved and in many ways was better than the first Batman movie. I say keep making them like this.