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Unread 07-30-2006, 01:46 PM   #46
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You waay overanaylzed it-look-the point is-bad player+good equipment=bad tone-kapeesh?or do I need to spell it out-

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Unread 07-30-2006, 03:39 PM   #47
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Yes, but the other camp is contesting that good player + bad gear = bad tone.

Frankly, my experience is that if the bad gear is useable (not physically broken and properly set-up) I can get a decent "tone" out of it.

Tone is also in the ears.
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Unread 07-30-2006, 04:50 PM   #48
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So tell me again why Victor Wooten uses $8000 fodera basses and multi-thousand dollar rigs instead of MIM fenders?

I'm not even going to try to calculate the guitarist from Dream Theaters rig...

My point is, why do the good and great players all gravitate towards the best gear instead of getting mid-range gear and saving some bucks?

The title of this thread is best equipment = best tone. You guys are trying to say best technique = best tone. But I disagree. The best tone comes from the best technique and the best equipment. If you have great technique, you'll sound decent through a squire starter pack, but not as good as you would through a PRS and a boutique amp.

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Unread 07-30-2006, 05:17 PM   #49
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the best of the best itequipment-brings out the best of the best of your technique-there's a dude I gig with that has an ebony fretboard on his lp-I (and everyone else that has played it) confess that we can play faster----that faster level of playing was already in our fingers so-to-speak but until we tried that guitar it hadn't come out-----argh that's the best way I know how to put-anyone else who know what I'm talkin about??
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Unread 07-30-2006, 07:16 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visirale View Post
So tell me again why Victor Wooten uses $8000 fodera basses and multi-thousand dollar rigs instead of MIM fenders?

I'm not even going to try to calculate the guitarist from Dream Theaters rig...

My point is, why do the good and great players all gravitate towards the best gear instead of getting mid-range gear and saving some bucks?

The title of this thread is best equipment = best tone. You guys are trying to say best technique = best tone. But I disagree. The best tone comes from the best technique and the best equipment. If you have great technique, you'll sound decent through a squire starter pack, but not as good as you would through a PRS and a boutique amp.
Frankly, most of the top-notch players I know use very middle-of-the-road gear that's set-up well.
I'm not talking $4000+ guitars and basses but $800-1000 axes that are set-up to their liking and usually mid-line or vintage-esque tube amps that have been modded, still costing less than boutique units.

The best tone comes from excellent technique and good gear.
"Best" gear is relative/subjective
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Unread 07-30-2006, 07:41 PM   #51
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Jumping in late, but I disagree. Tone is all in the equipment, but how it gets out is in the player. Just because a NASCAR driver could out race me in a semi trailer and me in a F1 car doesn't mean speed is all in the driver. It means I don't know how to operate the vehicle I am driving and don't know the basic technique of racing.

The same goes for guitars. When I first started playing I couldn't tell the difference between my Peavy Rapter strat through a Peavy solid state amp and my playing a LP through a marshall. They both stunk. Now that I play better I can clearly tell the difference between the equipment I am playing.

If any of you truely believe that tone is all in the fingers please send me your favorite expensive guitar and your tube amp and Ill send you a 1993 squire tele and a 10 watt pignose practice amp.
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Unread 07-30-2006, 08:09 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Neal View Post
Jumping in late, but I disagree. Tone is all in the equipment, but how it gets out is in the player. Just because a NASCAR driver could out race me in a semi trailer and me in a F1 car doesn't mean speed is all in the driver. It means I don't know how to operate the vehicle I am driving and don't know the basic technique of racing.

The same goes for guitars. When I first started playing I couldn't tell the difference between my Peavy Rapter strat through a Peavy solid state amp and my playing a LP through a marshall. They both stunk. Now that I play better I can clearly tell the difference between the equipment I am playing.

If any of you truely believe that tone is all in the fingers please send me your favorite expensive guitar and your tube amp and Ill send you a 1993 squire tele and a 10 watt pignose practice amp.
I'm guessing you've jumped in late without reading the past 3 pages?
If not then you've already missed the fact that this thread is not about the praise of cheap gear but it is to dispell the myth the quest for the "best" gear will return the best tone.

Also stated earlier is the fact that the "best" tone needed for a particular situation might be derived from a Squier (not "squire") and a Pignose.

EVH scratched a crumpled Budwieser can on his strings and made it sound like groaning dinosaurs. Everyone loved it.
I guess if he'd used a fine imported beer can it would have sounded better?
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Unread 07-30-2006, 09:57 PM   #53
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Lost--but what I know is simple-I have gotten a tone that I am very satisfied with-with both equipment and my technique-is it the best equipment in the world? no-is it the worst? no-tone is all in the individual's ear-it can't be bought-it can't be sold-what some people call tone other's may call crap-me? I have a tone I am satisfied with-but I'll never have what I may consider "perfect" tone-but that's just the fun of being a guitarist
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Unread 08-01-2006, 01:22 PM   #54
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here's a thought:
expensive gear isn't just about tone
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Unread 08-01-2006, 01:40 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Neal View Post
Jumping in late, but I disagree. Tone is all in the equipment, but how it gets out is in the player. Just because a NASCAR driver could out race me in a semi trailer and me in a F1 car doesn't mean speed is all in the driver. It means I don't know how to operate the vehicle I am driving and don't know the basic technique of racing.

...

If any of you truely believe that tone is all in the fingers please send me your favorite expensive guitar and your tube amp and Ill send you a 1993 squire tele and a 10 watt pignose practice amp.
You seem to be making the point, then disagreeing with yourself?

I mean...isnt that the point. A Nascar driver could beat you or me driving while driving a huge pos, while we could have a formula1 car. He has the skill to do that...In his case, its all in the technique of driving. Why wouldnt this same concept transfer over?
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Unread 08-02-2006, 06:33 AM   #56
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I know it is kind of off topic but some (not all) of the so called best equipment is only considered the best because some top name guitarists use them. If Eric Clapton used a Danalectro Fish n' Chips (not saying he does) a bunch of people would want one and suddenly it would be put in the "best gear" category... and the price would jump up. Countless pieces of gear started out as ordinary gear, some were even discontinued, until a famous guitarist discovered it and then everyone wanted one.

Good gear doesn't make the player but bad gear can hamper your progress in getting better... developing good tone and pitch ear skills and playing technique which will not likely happen with a Squire Strat Pak starter kit for too long. Nothing wrong with buying better gear as you improve or to help you improve but don't get G.A.S. where it becomes all about the buying & not the playing and we spend more time salivating over the Musician's Friend catalog & less time running scales, drills, and learning cool riffs.

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Unread 08-02-2006, 02:08 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbmaj7 View Post
I know it is kind of off topic but some (not all) of the so called best equipment is only considered the best because some top name guitarists use them. If Eric Clapton used a Danalectro Fish n' Chips (not saying he does) a bunch of people would want one and suddenly it would be put in the "best gear" category... and the price would jump up. Countless pieces of gear started out as ordinary gear, some were even discontinued, until a famous guitarist discovered it and then everyone wanted one.

Good gear doesn't make the player but bad gear can hamper your progress in getting better... developing good tone and pitch ear skills and playing technique which will not likely happen with a Squire Strat Pak starter kit for too long. Nothing wrong with buying better gear as you improve or to help you improve but don't get G.A.S. where it becomes all about the buying & not the playing and we spend more time salivating over the Musician's Friend catalog & less time running scales, drills, and learning cool riffs.

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I think there's some truth in that, but not completely. I think it's entirely possible a "top name guitarist" could start using something that actually is in the "best gear" catagory. But I definitly see the opposite happening. Take the DOD Gonkulator. That thing is a horrible ring mod, and it was discontinued. But suddenly, a guy named Mike Einziger uses it for one song on one album, and EVERYONE wants one. eBay prices went sky high, over $100 easy. So that definitly can be true. It's also true with a lot of "signature" gear out there. They usually just want to slap some famous name on a mid quality product and get everyone thinking it's awesome.

But, what am I doing? I'm appealing to some standard of quality. So I think that this standard does exist for gear being better at good tone, although I do think that the line is blurred.

Also, let's not forget noise rock, where crap is good. But it's still crap. Just goes back to context.
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Unread 08-02-2006, 02:14 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visirale View Post
The title of this thread is best equipment = best tone. You guys are trying to say best technique = best tone. But I disagree. The best tone comes from the best technique and the best equipment. If you have great technique, you'll sound decent through a squire starter pack, but not as good as you would through a PRS and a boutique amp.
But this thread is about Myths and Facts...

The MYTH is best equipment = best tone

The FACT is that tone is mostly in technique. Those dreamtheatre guys have awesome technique, and it is enhanced by the equipment. If I played their equipment, and they played mine, they would sound better on mine, then I would on theirs.
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Unread 08-02-2006, 02:59 PM   #59
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i think the myths are that the best equipment=the best tone and that tyone is all in the fingers, you have to have some of both.
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Unread 08-02-2006, 03:03 PM   #60
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but thats just it.

Isnt myth based on truth...so we keep going around in circles on something we basically all agree on.
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