[presbystrat]

How do you know exactly when your amp is clipping? When I turn my gain up I get a thicker tone. When I turn it way up it starts to break up and sound all distorted. When exactly does the clipping begin? My SS sounds pretty good with moderate gain but when it gets to where it starts to break up it doesn't sound very good to me.

[eyema_believer]

Originally Posted by Hopeful

I've heard Lincoln Brewster say in a blind test, even he is not able to tell the difference. And, he is not only a great guitar player, he is also a sound engineer.

I bet he couldn't tell the difference between my son's $40.00 Behringer strat copy and my $1000 American Strat plus recorded. That certainly doesn't mean one is as enjoyable to play as the other. I was at a conference last week with Lincoln, and he uses the POD XT live. It sounded great! Did it sound like an Orange or an AC30? Nope. Didn't sound like anything in particular. I can tell you this much. I heard it though 2 P.A. systems. One we were under a large tent with maybe 1000 people, and I could tell it was a modeler. (no, I'm not saying it sounded bad, it still sounded good) When we got outside to the main stage area through the massive PA meant for the 50,000 people that were there, I could not tell it was a modeler....but he doesn't use it in the studio, and had this to say, that the reason he uses it at all is for the convenience and consistency from place to place. But, he still plugged it into the (un-miced) AC30 that was sitting there for everyone to use.....

[Rainer.]

Originally Posted by presbystrat

How do you know exactly when your amp is clipping? When I turn my gain up I get a thicker tone. When I turn it way up it starts to break up and sound all distorted. When exactly does the clipping begin? My SS sounds pretty good with moderate gain but when it gets to where it starts to break up it doesn't sound very good to me.

Well, if you really want to find exactly where it starts to clip, you might need an oscilloscope for some amps. Clipping begins where the sound is no longer "clean". The thickening in tone you may hear is the highs getting compressed and clipped while the lows are broadening. You should be able to hear it pretty easily when clipping is introduced, though.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by Rainer.

Well, if you really want to find exactly where it starts to clip, you might need an oscilloscope for some amps. Clipping begins where the sound is no longer "clean". The thickening in tone you may hear is the highs getting compressed and clipped while the lows are broadening. You should be able to hear it pretty easily when clipping is introduced, though.

the thickening could also be the effect of speaker compression.

[Hopeful]

Originally Posted by eyema_believer

I bet he couldn't tell the difference between my son's $40.00 Behringer strat copy and my $1000 American Strat plus recorded. That certainly doesn't mean one is as enjoyable to play as the other. I was at a conference last week with Lincoln, and he uses the POD XT live. It sounded great! Did it sound like an Orange or an AC30? Nope. Didn't sound like anything in particular. I can tell you this much. I heard it though 2 P.A. systems. One we were under a large tent with maybe 1000 people, and I could tell it was a modeler. (no, I'm not saying it sounded bad, it still sounded good) When we got outside to the main stage area through the massive PA meant for the 50,000 people that were there, I could not tell it was a modeler....but he doesn't use it in the studio, and had this to say, that the reason he uses it at all is for the convenience and consistency from place to place. But, he still plugged it into the (un-miced) AC30 that was sitting there for everyone to use.....

Yeah, I've seen him several times in venues like those, except with a Twin Reverb as the stage monitor and also in a very large church (I think maybe Speedster was the stage amp) I think the whole point is, it doesn't matter if you sound like an Orange of AC30, but do you sound good? With either emulation or tubes, if you can accomplish that, your gear has done its part.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by Hopeful

With either emulation or tubes, if you can accomplish that, your gear has done its part.

Amen. This is hte ultimate test. For me, my Acoustic 150 is perfect. I get Fender quality cleans in an ultra simple package. any OD concerns are taken care of by my VS J&H.

[Major Tom]

Originally Posted by presbystrat

How do you know exactly when your amp is clipping? When I turn my gain up I get a thicker tone. When I turn it way up it starts to break up and sound all distorted. When exactly does the clipping begin? My SS sounds pretty good with moderate gain but when it gets to where it starts to break up it doesn't sound very good to me.

Modern SS amps and modelers aren't going to be clipping per se in normal operation, as in a transistor that is driven into clipping. SS amps have circuitry in their preamp stage to mimic what tubes do when overdriven. The power amp is then faithfully reproducing that softened envelope tube "clipping" emulation - just like playing a CD of a distorted guitar thru your stereo. Solid state clipping is extemely ugly sounding, I don't mean like "not very good distortion", but un-musical sounding - if you were getting that type of clipping, you'd be taking it in for repair or looking at a new one...

What kind of amp do you have? "High-gain" amps often have absurd amounts of gain/distortion available.

[presbystrat]

Originally Posted by Major Tom

Modern SS amps and modelers aren't going to be clipping per se in normal operation, as in a transistor that is driven into clipping. SS amps have circuitry in their preamp stage to mimic what tubes do when overdriven. The power amp is then faithfully reproducing that softened envelope tube "clipping" emulation - just like playing a CD of a distorted guitar thru your stereo. Solid state clipping is extemely ugly sounding, I don't mean like "not very good distortion", but un-musical sounding - if you were getting that type of clipping, you'd be taking it in for repair or looking at a new one...

Okay, now I understand the difference a little better. I guess this is why a lower wattage tube amp can be louder than an SS amp of the same wattage? If I want a purely clean tone, would I still need a tube amp with the same amount of headroom? If that is true and I wanted to go from clean tones to distorted tones at the same volume, I would need a larger tube amp with an attenuator, correct? It might actually be cheaper to use an SS amp for cleans and a low wattage tube amp for distorted tones.

Originally Posted by Major Tom

What kind of amp do you have? "High-gain" amps often have absurd amounts of gain/distortion available.

I was referring to my 80's Cube 60 (see previous thread). It doesn't do very good all out distortion but it seems to get the tone I need (either clean or slightly overdriven).