Go Back   Christian Guitar Forum > Musicians > Guitar
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 05-04-2006, 12:57 AM   #76
Registered User
 
CheshireCat's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 6,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeful
First, I never said you were the immature one and I don't think you should take offense to anything I said.

Your example obviously has impacted your opinion and is valid. But, there's another perspective too. We're all learning here, don't you think? Just look at my signature...
Well, fortunately for you, you've had the luxury, as it were, of not worrying whether something made sense because you've had a wife (in your second marriage) that always had your back. That is a most fortunate thing, tho I'm sure you had your challenges and had lessons to learn along the way.

My experiences were also valuable, and I'm glad for them, but they also taught me to use common sense and also taught me that I get to keep my eyes open and leave nothing to chance, and always trust that little Jiminy Crickett voice in my head when redflags go off in a big way.

IOW, while I definitely believe in God, I don't believe in magical thinking. One of the distinctions I live by is this: "The Physical Universe is the Ultimate Guru: Rocks are Hard and Water is Wet -- LIFE is evaluated by measureable results". IOW, God gave us the Physical Universe, and it's governing Laws, for a very good reason.

What reason is that? Simply put, the Physical Universe is a constant. It's tangible. It's corporal. It doesn't exist in la-la land, nor the land of theory. And if something we experience runs counter to how the PU works 99.999% of the time, it's up to us to sit up and take notice. Ergo, those redflags. The Bible is absolutely loaded with passages to that effect, notably ones along the lines of bad trees bearing bad fruit, and so on. (Don't want to turn this into a Theology post, so I won't go into massive verse quotes, but I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.)

Simply put, rocks are hard and water is wet. It's constant. Cause and Effect. So, if someone vows to love, cherish, honor, and ultimately sacrifice for the other person, and for a couple, and to give selflessly of themselves, and then actually does it, that's an example of parity. That person is doing what she said she would do, and everything is as it should be.

But, if someone who vowed to always be mindful of our well-being, as we would be mindful of theirs, and then wanted to do something terribly selfish and mean, or even cruel or downright evil, that's disparity. Something is amiss. Something is terribly wrong. Something isn't as it should be. And something caused that.

That's the bad fruit, and it came from somewhere. We can make excuses for it all day long, we can rationalize it, we can downplay it, but ultimately, somewhere, something's terribly wrong, and sacrificing our guitar, heirloom watch, broach, car, children, whathaveyou, at the altar of someone else's psychosis, obsession, or addiction, is being an enabler, and isn't going to serve them nor us, nor the other people impacted by that decision. Whatever their issue is, that issue immediately needs to be addressed. To not do so could be disastrous.

So, like I said before, if in this scenario the sacrifice is a dire one, and is one equally supported on both sides (another allusion to being equally yoked), then that is a fair statement, and, truth be told, my wife/gf would never even get the chance to ask . . . I'd have had the eBay listing up before it even occurred to her (assuming I actually had a guitar I could move). In fact, I would almost take heroic measures for her to not sell her grandmother's broach, or whathaveyou, and would do everything I could to raise the money myself. He heirloom from her grandmother, passed down mother to daughter, is more significant to her, and by extension me, than any ol' Strat, regardless of resale value, assuming we needed the money.

But instead if she put to me an ultimatum that she wanted me to sell one of the few possessions I had to fund her selfish spending spree (as YM outlined) for more shoes, clothes, whatever, when she's already got a full closet of clothes that she never wears anyways, and she feels shouldn't have to sacrifice anything to accommodate her proclivities, then that is definitely something that would raise a red flag. That would seriously worry me.

Incidentally, I never suggested that you were suggesting that I was immature . . . I was just making sure that it wasn't going in that direction and therefore was soliciting clarification.

That said, what is your response to the other scenario? The one that YM actually outlined?

Chesh

__________________
Thought for the day . . . . Is the philosophical proof "pics or it didn't happen" a valid proof? Inquiring minds want to know.

If the doors of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. --William Blake

Click here for the WORST advice you could ever get/give in the entire world of guitar buying

Last edited by CheshireCat; 05-04-2006 at 01:13 AM.
CheshireCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-04-2006, 05:07 AM   #77
major 4th to a minor 4th
 
telecasting's Avatar
 

Joined: Jul 2005
Location: England
Posts: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat

This is, among other things, a public debate forum. We challenge each others' postulates all day long. That's par for the course.

"Wanna play"? Not like that.
I think you've struck a chord there, in that really, how much do we come on and genuinely seek other peoples authoriatative opinions? After a while, it can feel that posts, and I'm talking about myself as much as anyone, are a stock response that confirms our position on a particular issue. There really isn't that much in the way of debate whereby one person turns to another p.o.v and accepts it, especially about guitars.

I mean, hypothetically, if someone said to any of us that PRS guitars are actually the best guitars, and proved it, explaining that they aren't just the best sounding, but also the best priced guitars and Paul Reed Smith himself is now a christian and blesses each instrument or whatever; would we all go out and buy PRS guitars? Probably not.

I don't even think there is a groundbreaking point to the post, and is more about me revising my own thoughts about internet forums for my media exam in a fortnight, but I was a bit disappointed to see any suggestion of flaming on a christian forum. Isn't the whole point of flaming self-centred?

As for the original hypothetical situation, and possibly to move the thread into a new kind of raging debate, I would have to say that as a guy, and therefore the head of the family in the same was that Jesus is the head of the church, I would lovingly lead my wife in humble prayer for the right way of going forward, and then make that decision for the family. If I saw folly in my wife, I would rebuke her in the way the bible teaches.

I agree with Ches' point about not entering into a relationship with a girl who is self-centred and materialistic though. I would hope that the original hypothetical question would only ever remain hypothetical!
telecasting is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2006, 09:40 AM   #78
Registered User
 
WannaPlay's Avatar
 

Joined: May 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 122
I'm going to respond publicly, not to fan any flames, or sidetrack this further, although I'm sure there will be a little of that, but because Chesh was right to call me out on this. theSteve and other mods, please excuse my going against your direction to take it to PM in this case.

If there are further questions or comments regarding my comments, please direct them to me via PM (which likely won't be read until Monday, as I'll be away from a computer tomorrow through Sunday night, and it's questionnable if I'll be back here to check PMs today), unless they will serve to bring the discussion back around to Yoda's orginal question.

Chesh, I read your reply to me yesterday, and honestly would not have been able to reply in grace, so I let it be for a time. Your initial comment was one which I felt showed a self-centered view. Your initial post made some generalizations which made blatant use of gender stereotypes:
Quote:
What, is she going to sell all her favorite shoes, or even her entire shoe collection, save one or two pairs? She says you have too many guitars, but doesn't she have too many clothes, and in addition always complains that she doesn't have anything to wear?
In subsequent posts, you did further explain your perspective and I can see where you're coming from. While I may not agree in entirety with what you said, I do see that, stereotypical generalizations aside, my judgement of you in this case was false. I apologize.

Your scenario actually reminded me of an issue that reared its head in my first marriage. Despite going through a much similar experience (my first wife trying to get me to sell my great-grandmother's silver because she was ticked my folks gave it to us for a wedding gift, when it was supposed to mine anyway; quit search and rescue just because, even though she'd still work all those training weekends I'd not be in the field, and still go to the bar with her co-workers every Thursday night after work), I would prefer to give the person to whom I've made a commitment the benefit of the doubt.

Other posts I see as showing some self-centeredness:

Quote:
I would never marry a woman that tried to make me sell my guitars.
I know that the person who made this comment is married, and I hope it was tongue in cheek, but you never know how a person may change (and hence why I am leery of people marrying young). I was with my first wife three years when we got married. I never saw any signs that would point to such self-centeredness or blatant neglect of the marriage. But they develop.

Quote:
NO! I'd sell one of my crap guitars(hopefully I would have one to convince her).
Rainer summed up my thought on this one

Quote:
I'd tell her to meet me half way and sell something of her's too.
Granted marriage does take sacrifice on the part of each party, but firing back "not unless you sell stuff too!" is hardly helpful or sensitive to the situation.

Quote:
i wouldn't sell my guitar cause i only have ONE! that's right ONE!
I took Yoda's initial post at face value. We need money. Now in my situation, when money runs out before the pay period, something gets sold. As the result of some poor decisions during my first marriage, I have been working six years to pay off credit debt. My eight month unemployment period killed any savings we had managed to build up, and I ended up taking a job that paid less than the prior one, and required us to move. So, no other options.

Later Yoda changed the rules (my perception) and played the stereotypes and generalizations:

Quote:
woah woah woah..
shh.. stop argueing.

my intentions of this topic was,
that would you sell your guitar, if your wife asked you to.

the money's not for food.. probably her next shopping spree.
(if it were for food, of course i would sell my guitar )
and, she thinks you have too many guitar's. perhaps i should of said this in the beginning, but please excuse my stupidity
He also changed it from wife telling to wife asking you to sell the guitar.

I do thank you, Chesh, for challenging his stance that this situation is inevitable (I just realized you called him on this as I was re-reading in another window pulling my quotes for this post), however, you still do lean heavily (see your latest reply to Hopeful) on stereotypical generalization.

Now, given the changed nature of the inquiry, and to directly address your question, if my wife had a spending issue and asked me to sell things I value (maternal grandfather's pocket watch, paternal grandfather's wrist watch, great-grandmother's silver, my backpacking/climbing/kayaking gear), I'd definitely be asking questions about why, and looking for other options for her to satisfy that urge to buy something.

Chesh, I hope I've cleared things up. I thank you for calling me out for being out of line. If you feel I still am, please PM me, unless it may be considered to germaine to the discussion that Yoda wants to get going. As I said above, I'm unsure if I'll be able to check back here much today, and I'll be on a retreat tomorrow through Sunday and not back to a computer until Monday morning, so you won't hear from me until then, but I will answer any further comments.
WannaPlay is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2006, 02:29 PM   #79
Godin/Seagull Man
 
presbystrat's Avatar
 

Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 2,796
I thought this thread needed some lightening up:
presbystrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2006, 05:03 PM   #80
Registered User
 
CheshireCat's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 6,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by presbystrat
I thought this thread needed some lightening up:


Response forthcoming.
__________________
Thought for the day . . . . Is the philosophical proof "pics or it didn't happen" a valid proof? Inquiring minds want to know.

If the doors of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. --William Blake

Click here for the WORST advice you could ever get/give in the entire world of guitar buying
CheshireCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2006, 11:15 PM   #81
Pearl plays her guitar
 
Hopeful's Avatar
 

Joined: May 2004
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 4,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by presbystrat
I thought this thread needed some lightening up:
That is great!!!
__________________
I've been humbled many times, but always for my own good!

Check this guy out:
http://www.dougdoppler.com/
Hopeful is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2006, 11:07 AM   #82
Pearl plays her guitar
 
Hopeful's Avatar
 

Joined: May 2004
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 4,404
Chesh - could you please make room in your inbox, so I could send a PM?

Thanks.
__________________
I've been humbled many times, but always for my own good!

Check this guy out:
http://www.dougdoppler.com/
Hopeful is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2006, 11:15 AM   #83
Registered User
 
akaukal's Avatar
 

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by presbystrat
I thought this thread needed some lightening up:
nice
__________________
Check out my band's music: http://facebook.com/mirrorsandtides
akaukal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2006, 11:34 AM   #84
Registered User
 
CheshireCat's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 6,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeful
Chesh - could you please make room in your inbox, so I could send a PM?

Thanks.
Not at the moment. I need to make another payment as a subscriber to open the space up, or else I'd have to delete some 250 emails (many of which are saved for future work).
__________________
Thought for the day . . . . Is the philosophical proof "pics or it didn't happen" a valid proof? Inquiring minds want to know.

If the doors of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. --William Blake

Click here for the WORST advice you could ever get/give in the entire world of guitar buying
CheshireCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2006, 12:01 PM   #85
Tired of being attacked
 
BillSPrestonEsq's Avatar
 

Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Beaverton, Or
Posts: 40,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Not at the moment. I need to make another payment as a subscriber to open the space up, or else I'd have to delete some 250 emails (many of which are saved for future work).
You can download the entire contents of your pm box and then delete it on here as well. I have done it in the past (and need to do it again, as I am fast approaching my limit) You lose nothing and free up the inbox.
__________________
For this I will be judged.


My Life.
BillSPrestonEsq is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2006, 01:43 PM   #86
Registered User
 
CheshireCat's Avatar
 

Joined: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 6,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq
You can download the entire contents of your pm box and then delete it on here as well. I have done it in the past (and need to do it again, as I am fast approaching my limit) You lose nothing and free up the inbox.
Ah. Interesting.
__________________
Thought for the day . . . . Is the philosophical proof "pics or it didn't happen" a valid proof? Inquiring minds want to know.

If the doors of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. --William Blake

Click here for the WORST advice you could ever get/give in the entire world of guitar buying
CheshireCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2006, 03:19 PM   #87
Rey de CGR
Administrator
 
DaGeek's Avatar
 

Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 13,780
paid
Quote:
Originally Posted by presbystrat
I thought this thread needed some lightening up:

LOL!

Priceless!



(And I had no idea you could download your PM's! Gracias peoples who pointed that out )
__________________
I am most definitely a guy.


Donate blood and save up to three lives! Skeptical or curious about the facts? Please click here and find out from the experts!
DaGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2006, 03:59 PM   #88
Older than dirt...
 
RainCaster's Avatar
 

Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 224
If the scenario is that my wife has asked me to sell something very precious to me, yes I have. She gets too much pleasure from my guitars, but hates the time I spend playing at the track, so I sold my Vipers. No more "fear of widowhood". She asked me if I would sell my sailboat, and I said yes, but she just wanted to know, and really wants to keep it. Although I did agree to stop singlehanding during winter storms- another favorite activity of mine.
Presbystrat- that is an awesome picture. Isn't that an American Idle?
__________________


Where I work
RainCaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-06-2006, 10:36 AM   #89
I'm on a horse.
 
Rainer.'s Avatar
 

Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle, WA.
Posts: 29,118
Send a message via AIM to Rainer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by presbystrat
I thought this thread needed some lightening up:
I love that pic off Mike Lull's site. He fixed my guitar when the neck got a pretty nasty crack, he does a great job.

/random tangent
__________________
. . . j o n : [ FLICKR \ BLOG ]

Rainer. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-08-2006, 09:08 AM   #90
Older than dirt...
 
RainCaster's Avatar
 

Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer.
I love that pic off Mike Lull's site. He fixed my guitar when the neck got a pretty nasty crack, he does a great job.

/random tangent
I sent one of my acoustics to him for fishman install & action work, had mixed results. Many PRS-shredder wannabes where I worked at the time consider him a Luthier Extrordinaire.
__________________


Where I work
RainCaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:13 AM.


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2