Assistance.

Insane Drummer · 04-18-2006, 04:27 PM

Ok, here be the deal. I am intending on attending (I like that phrase) Loyola University of NO, as a history major. Now, before that occurs I would like to do a little more reveiw/learning. I would like recommendations for fairly general/concise books to read on various time periods and places. I have read a fairly good general world history and a 20th century history, but mostly specific works. I am looking for general works in American, Europian (middle ages to early modern), and just any other general works of any era/location you would like to recommend.

Thank you for the assistance.

zekthedeadcow · 04-20-2006, 08:07 PM

Though most profs arn't going to come out and say it, (And I only have an AA) I would strongly suggest ditching secondary sources all together... you'd be supprised how many of them are actually written by english profs

Start finding places to read primary sources, or translations. Learn some latin, greek, and Anglo-Saxon/Old German and maybe runes... or atleast recognize runes... I learned my lil bit'o'latin from "Word Power Made Easy" in the 9th grade... You should atleast be able to identify what language a sentance is in.

For medieval translations and sources I use http://www.fordham.edu/HALSALL/sbook.html

Google nouns... sometimes 11th Century monks misspell things... it could change a location from Wales to France (Guallia/Gallia/Gwalia/Gaullia)

Wikipedia to find primary sources... but if you cite a wiki you will die.

Understand the basics of Animism.

Read Joseph Campbell's books.

Understand the idea of "common knowledge"

When you get to the point of needing to write papers/thesis on your own the profs arn't going to care about common knowlege... they want new knowledge. Quoting what someone else said in their own paper/book isn't going to get you published.

and read and critically analyse every creation story you come accross.

Insane Drummer · 04-20-2006, 08:32 PM

Indeed, I understand the value of primary sources, but, I don't think you can throw out secondary sources entirely, or what would be the purpose of majoring in History, so I can become something to be ignored? I not asking for secondary sources to become an instant expert, I am wanting a more soild groundwork to build upon.

"but if you cite a wiki you will die."

The darkest corner of hell is reserved for wiki-quoters, this is no worry for me.

PS. I already have that site bookmarked... And it ranks as one of hte most annoying on the dead link catigory.

USGold · 04-25-2006, 12:08 PM

just a suggestion from a former history major--read some histography--learn a bit about why history is written the way it is--what factors contribute to different interpretations of historical events.

Insane Drummer · 04-25-2006, 04:54 PM

This is all well and good advice. But the problem is, I am asking a very specific question for a very specific reason and I am recieving general advice. Not that this advice is not wanted, it is just not why I posted this.

rockin4theking · 04-25-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

This is all well and good advice. But the problem is, I am asking a very specific question for a very specific reason and I am recieving general advice. Not that this advice is not wanted, it is just not why I posted this.

And I think that you're not going to get it either.

I only have a minor, and my area of (unofficial) emphasis is WWII, western natural resources policy, and early 20th Century Russia. So I really don't feel I can answer your question very well.

I would recommend more specific books, but my library is currently in storage as I'm getting ready to move. In general I like Ambrose's WWII books, as they offer a more personal look into the lives of soldiers of WWII. Two good Russian WWII books are Fighting for the Soviet Motherland by Dmitriy Loza, and A Writer at War by Vasily Grossman. Also good period commentary on early Soviet Russia is Behind the Urals:An American Worker in Russia's City of Steel by John Scott.

Insane Drummer · 04-25-2006, 06:02 PM

Or even things that cover specifics but not too specific, you wouldn't read a single soldiers memiors of the Civil War to get a general picture of hte events of the war, it just wouldn't make sense. I am mostly looking for the "big picture" it could be about specific events, but it still needs to be big picture.

rockin4theking · 04-25-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

Or even things that cover specifics but not too specific, you wouldn't read a single soldiers memiors of the Civil War to get a general picture of hte events of the war, it just wouldn't make sense. I am mostly looking for the "big picture" it could be about specific events, but it still needs to be big picture.

Well, quite frankly, I have no idea what you're looking for based on that. You say you want broad, but concise, "big picture," but specific. These two things don't really mix well, I'm sad to say.

Unless... Maybe I totally misread you: are you really looking for books about specific events or periods that cover those specific events or periods in a broad fashion?

Insane Drummer · 04-25-2006, 08:24 PM

Periods in general and/or the most major events in said periods. I am basicly just looking for the basic who/what/when/where of Europe and the Americas from 900-1900. Specifics on say American Revolution, Napoleonic wars, French Revolution, Crusades, or any other major developement in that period would be good as well.

Examples of what I am not looking for, (I will make them WWII for the sake of ease). Specific battles, campaigns, people, etc. No D-Day, or The War in THe Pacific, or Patton, or the situation in the mainland US during the war, or The development of atomic weapons.

What I would be looking for something like Sir Martin Gilbert's Second World War for an event or his History of the 20th century (about 700 pages, a good length for a general overview of a period) for a peiod.

The goal here is to brush up on the basics and so when I do get into something more specific to understand better what was going on around the time of what ever that specific thing is.

I have read large portiona of the Roman historian Polybius' work, a fair amount of Livy, some of Suetonius, about 1/4 of Plutarch, 5-6 works by Cicero, the Jewish war of Josephus, some speaches of Demothanes, the letters Pliny, some ficiton writers, poets, philosophers of hte era, and other sources I can't think of at this moment. But reading all that would have been a lot less useful if I hadn't first learned the basics of where it all fit into Roman and Greek history. There are some events I have not read any Roman or Greek sources on, but I still know of them and how they fit with what I have read from the bacis overview of Roman/Greek history I have learned.

That is what I am looking for, a basic understanding that I can read specific and primary sources and understand better how they fit in and the surronding events that would have had an effect on these events.

rockin4theking · 04-25-2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

Periods in general and/or the most major events in said periods. I am basicly just looking for the basic who/what/when/where of Europe and the Americas from 900-1900. Specifics on say American Revolution, Napoleonic wars, French Revolution, Crusades, or any other major developement in that period would be good as well.

Examples of what I am not looking for, (I will make them WWII for the sake of ease). Specific battles, campaigns, people, etc. No D-Day, or The War in THe Pacific, or Patton, or the situation in the mainland US during the war, or The development of atomic weapons.

What I would be looking for something like Sir Martin Gilbert's Second World War for an event or his History of the 20th century (about 700 pages, a good length for a general overview of a period) for a peiod.

The goal here is to brush up on the basics and so when I do get into something more specific to understand better what was going on around the time of what ever that specific thing is.

I have read large portiona of the Roman historian Polybius' work, a fair amount of Livy, some of Suetonius, about 1/4 of Plutarch, 5-6 works by Cicero, the Jewish war of Josephus, some speaches of Demothanes, the letters Pliny, some ficiton writers, poets, philosophers of hte era, and other sources I can't think of at this moment. But reading all that would have been a lot less useful if I hadn't first learned the basics of where it all fit into Roman and Greek history. There are some events I have not read any Roman or Greek sources on, but I still know of them and how they fit with what I have read from the bacis overview of Roman/Greek history I have learned.

That is what I am looking for, a basic understanding that I can read specific and primary sources and understand better how they fit in and the surronding events that would have had an effect on these events.

I don't have many suggestions, but now I do have a better understanding of what you're looking for. I'd say you're pretty well read as is, although that in no way means you should stop.

zekthedeadcow · 04-26-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Drummer

I am basicly just looking for the basic who/what/when/where of Europe and the Americas from 900-1900. Specifics on say American Revolution, Napoleonic wars, French Revolution, Crusades, or any other major developement in that period would be good as well.

Honestly thats not a good way to study history... If thats the type if information you're looking for then read textbooks... otherwise you'll be bogged down in pointless reading. The ONLY book I know of that covers a vast scope of history is The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon ... I think the abridged version is three volums at around 1500 pages each...thats only 100ad to 1000ad (give or take)

the who/what/when/where is usually not the informationa college level paper is going to go for either... they're only going to care about the "why" which can only be gotten from primary source documents.

When you cover Mesopotamian culture you're not going to read a book about it you're going to read the Enuma Elish and duscuss why it's so bloody and what according to it, it means to be "man".

If you write a paper on Civil War camp life sucking then yes you better cite a soldiers letter where he says it sucks... otherwise it's only an opinion by someone who may be an english major regurgitating bad information. Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's right... and you will eventually have to defend your conclusions and a "Because soandso said so." is a bad defense.

Insane Drummer · 04-26-2006, 08:45 PM

You are just not getting a word of this are you?

I am not saying that I want to JUST read such material, do you honestly think there is 0 merit in reading what others have to say? You don't seem to get what I am thinking/saying at all. I am currently reading primary sources and plan on continuing to do such, but I am also looking for good general secondary sources.

I am not saying that the why is not important, I am saying the opposite entirely. I am speficicly NOT looking for the why in the sources I am asking for. I am also not asking for that entire 1000 year time frame I gave to be covered in one book.

Bottom line, this thread is useless and I am apparently speaking in Greek.