Divine Truth ..well is it?

Sigur Ros · 03-22-2006, 03:38 AM

Intresting:
notice that if the truths of mathematics depend for their reality upon the creative activity of the deity, it follows that god could change them merely by willing them to be different. This is an extreme version of a belief known as voluntarism, according to which 2 + 3 = 5 remains true only so long as god wills it to be so. Now if you already know this,you will know that there is no reason to take this as (something) negative because god wills eternity as it says in the bible, so truth in a sense is potentially (and actually) upon the exercise of the divine will. So the garden outside my window is greenish only aslong god will’s it to be? Does this mean there is no such thing as a definite and more importantly infinite TRUTH.

**Skeeter** · 03-22-2006, 07:42 AM

Truth is a bit strange. You think you know something about it, but once you get thinking about it, it's hard to understand. That's probably why Jesus said that he was the truth. Truth is a person, not an idea or a concept. Now this is not entirely useful in determing whether there is absolute truth. It must be admitted that all things rely on God; thus, if God wanted 2 + 2 to equal 7, he would be perfectly within his rights to do so and 2+2=7 would thus be "true."

The example that you put forward about the garden being "greenish" is not very useful either. "Green" is a very arbitrary concept. The only reason we call anything green is simply because of convention. There is nothing inherently "green" about a plant. Just ask a colourblind person. Furthermore, it is entirely possible that every single person on earth sees each colour differently. What one person perceives as "green" might be the same colour that another person calls "purple." But they both call it "green" simply because that is the language convention. And for the person who is seeing "purple" it would not seem at all strange to him.

This is probably an incoherent post, considering I have not had any sleep for a while. Suffice it to say, since Jesus is the truth, it is safe to say that there is absolute truth within the Christian worldview, though from our finite perspective we may never be able to grasp any one part of that absolute truth. Thus, from our perspective, truth may not appear absolute and will ultimately remain a mystery until we meet truth in person in heaven.

Chrysostom · 03-22-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigur Ros

Intresting:
notice that if the truths of mathematics depend for their reality upon the creative activity of the deity, it follows that god could change them merely by willing them to be different. This is an extreme version of a belief known as voluntarism, according to which 2 + 3 = 5 remains true only so long as god wills it to be so. Now if you already know this,you will know that there is no reason to take this as (something) negative because god wills eternity as it says in the bible, so truth in a sense is potentially (and actually) upon the exercise of the divine will. So the garden outside my window is greenish only aslong god will’s it to be? Does this mean there is no such thing as a definite and more importantly infinite TRUTH.

But then we must ask about why and how God wills, about the bounds of God's willing. And we must further ask why you're wondering if there is something definite or infinite which is defined in terms other than God's willing.

Elationist · 03-22-2006, 11:01 PM

Divine Truth = Spiritual Truth = Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Truth is Truth, there are physical truths, but divine truth extends from and through the Spirit.

While reading John we notice this portion where Pilate before sentencing Christ to the Cross, Pilate asked Jesus a similar question, "What is truth?"

NOTE: In context, Christ Jesus had just been teaching spiritual truths (divine truth) throughout the region where Pontius Pilate, King Herod and the Sanhedrin "ruled".

Pilate was essentially asking this, "Jesus, are you who the people claim you say You are? Are You King? Are You really the Truth, really the bread of life and the way to God?"

John 18:33-38 (NIV) 33 Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?"

34 Jesus answered, "Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?"

35 Pilate answered, "I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?"

36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

38 Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews and said to them, "I find no guilt in Him."

Divine Truth is absolute unchangeable, though it is apprehensible it is often
not comprehensible.

KEY: 1 Timothy 2:3-5 (NIV) 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

The art of Mathematics is often but physical truths attempting to explain spiritual truths. But only the Spirit of God can reveal what is hidden from the mathematical minds of men.