Go Back   Christian Guitar Forum > Musicians > Worship Leading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 02-13-2006, 03:28 PM   #16
Okagesama de genki desu
 
metropolis4's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Aurora, Not just a place...
Posts: 2,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthecockroach
Jesus seemed to think our method of worship was very important:

John 4:21-24
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

In any event, I'll leave this thread alone because I'm as tired of trying to convince people that having fun isn't what matters in worship as you are of people like me. Suffice to say in closing that I do not believe I have been negative, and I know I haven't been sarcastic (hyperbolic would be a more fitting word ).
I agree with you... But Jesus was concerned about the heart of the worshiper, not the kind of music the worshiper was listening to

metropolis4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 02-13-2006, 03:32 PM   #17
torn in 2
 
Jumpinjoegraham's Avatar
 

Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Windsor On. Canada
Posts: 200
I wrote a couple of songs that the folks have to shout things back at us. That was cool.

We gave everyone a drum of sorts once and we all banged'em together. They all seemed to wake up a bit.

(pump up debate)
Honestly there is nothing we can do to make God love us any more than he already does. If we get the crowd pumped up or not God really won't love us any more so don't worry about this crazy debate.

Naturally speaking, if you go to any event, weddings, comedians, rock concert, classical concert, everyone who is doing any type of public thing has to get the crowds attention first to do anything. What is so wrong with pumping up the crowd? will God hate you because you pumped up the crowd?
__________________
Thank you Jesus.


<a href="http://spaces.msn.com/members/jgrahamcanada/">Go To My MSN Spaces site</a>
<a href="http://www.windsorchurches.com/worship24/">Go To My 24 hour worship service site</a>
Jumpinjoegraham is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 03:36 PM   #18
Okagesama de genki desu
 
metropolis4's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Aurora, Not just a place...
Posts: 2,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumpinjoegraham
I wrote a couple of songs that the folks have to shout things back at us. That was cool.

We gave everyone a drum of sorts once and we all banged'em together. They all seemed to wake up a bit.

(pump up debate)
Honestly there is nothing we can do to make God love us any more than he already does. If we get the crowd pumped up or not God really won't love us any more so don't worry about this crazy debate.

Naturally speaking, if you go to any event, weddings, comedians, rock concert, classical concert, everyone who is doing any type of public thing has to get the crowds attention first to do anything. What is so wrong with pumping up the crowd? will God hate you because you pumped up the crowd?
metropolis4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 06:57 PM   #19
Moderator
 
Sean's Avatar
 

Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 23,757
Send a message via AIM to Sean Send a message via MSN to Sean
Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4
I don't see why we have to argue so much with each other about what worship TRULY is...
Being that we were created to worship God it would seem important that we figure out what that actually means.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 07:08 PM   #20
Okagesama de genki desu
 
metropolis4's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Aurora, Not just a place...
Posts: 2,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Being that we were created to worship God it would seem important that we figure out what that actually means.
I agree, but I feel like maybe our time would be better spent figuring out the important aspects of what worship is instead of arguing over whether we should be 'pumped up and excited', or 'solemn and reflective'
It seems to me that it can be either... and it seems like a trivial point in the overall scheme of what worship encompasses
metropolis4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 07:35 PM   #21
Moderator
 
Sean's Avatar
 

Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 23,757
Send a message via AIM to Sean Send a message via MSN to Sean
Quote:
Originally Posted by metropolis4
I agree, but I feel like maybe our time would be better spent figuring out the important aspects of what worship is instead of arguing over whether we should be 'pumped up and excited', or 'solemn and reflective'
It seems to me that it can be either... and it seems like a trivial point in the overall scheme of what worship encompasses
I don't think there point is that its wrong to be pumped up during worship. I believe the point they're trying to make is that you if you setup a light rig, fog machinues, crank up the music and get a FREAK'N ROCK BAND!!!!1!!!, you're merely turning worship into a concert. Kids get all pumped up at concerts all the time, but it isn't worship to God. If you merely copy the PUMP UP tactics of the non-Christian world then you're also just worshiping a fun concert experience.

Now I certainly don't believe its wrong to have fun during worship, and I certainly dont' believe its wrong to have a rock band during worship. However, its a very thin line to walk. By cranking up the volume and rock'n out the band you're certainly more likely to get kids into that moment, but you're using very shallow, worldly means to try and reach their heart.

With that said, worship has no style. "Rock" is the style of music that is most likely to naturally appeal to the most students in your typical suburban church. Theres no reason your band would choose a foreign musical style just to meet someone elses standards of what worship should look like.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 07:41 PM   #22
Chasing Last Place
 
jaredburns's Avatar
 

Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Woodinville (near Seattle), WA
Posts: 43
Send a message via MSN to jaredburns
I feel compelled to apologize to you for some of the responses people have posted in reply to you. I think I understand that you are just an honest person in ministry looking for a little perspective from others who share your same passion for worship. I am sad to see others here miss this sometimes and feel driven to preach basic concepts of ministry as if you didn’t know. Again I apologize for their assumptions.

Never be afraid of teaching the youth to get excited (pumped up) about worshipping God. I have seen youth are most into the expression of worship when a personal connection is made to the songs that they can identify with. I’ve found one of the best ways is to introduce a song and make it a teaching moment, saying why or how it can be an exuberant exciting expression of worship to God. A great example is to tell the story of David dancing before God and sing the song “Undignified.” Play it faster each time you repeat (Maybe you’ve done this already).

Don’t be discouraged by the posts, just take some of them with a grain of salt and skip to those who care about what you are saying.

PS. Any friend of mattslpoe has got to be ok!
__________________
Jared

Have you seen the latest from the band?

jaredburns is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 07:50 PM   #23
She's a guitar hero!
 
Dave H's Avatar
 

Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 3,393
Send a message via AIM to Dave H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Being that we were created to worship God it would seem important that we figure out what that actually means.
Good luck nailing that one down!
Dave H is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 07:56 PM   #24
Okagesama de genki desu
 
metropolis4's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Aurora, Not just a place...
Posts: 2,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
I don't think there point is that its wrong to be pumped up during worship. I believe the point they're trying to make is that you if you setup a light rig, fog machinues, crank up the music and get a FREAK'N ROCK BAND!!!!1!!!, you're merely turning worship into a concert. Kids get all pumped up at concerts all the time, but it isn't worship to God. If you merely copy the PUMP UP tactics of the non-Christian world then you're also just worshiping a fun concert experience.

Now I certainly don't believe its wrong to have fun during worship, and I certainly dont' believe its wrong to have a rock band during worship. However, its a very thin line to walk. By cranking up the volume and rock'n out the band you're certainly more likely to get kids into that moment, but you're using very shallow, worldly means to try and reach their heart.

With that said, worship has no style. "Rock" is the style of music that is most likely to naturally appeal to the most students in your typical suburban church. Theres no reason your band would choose a foreign musical style just to meet someone elses standards of what worship should look like.
I agree with you, although I would disagree that we're using "very shallow, worldly means to try to reach their heart". If that were ALL we were doing then it would be shallow. And I think it would be possible for that to be happening, but, at least in my scenario's, thats not the case. Besides, the whole 'pump up' tactics aren't the only thing being presented to the kids in the course of the worship service. There are a lot of other things going on too.
What I struggle with sometimes is this line between putting on a good media enriched production without loosing touch with the people. We want to have a good presentation, and a lot of times that includes stuff like lighting and louder volumes, but the more of that that you add, the further you separate yourself from the people. Or I should say, the easier it is to lose touch with those people.
It seems to me that it is on a continuum... as one goes up, the other goes down, and it's hard to find the balance sometimes.
metropolis4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 08:08 PM   #25
Heaven isn't too far away
 
gtrdave's Avatar
 

Joined: Dec 2004
Location: The First State
Posts: 6,730
Send a message via AIM to gtrdave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
I don't think there point is that its wrong to be pumped up during worship. I believe the point they're trying to make is that you if you setup a light rig, fog machinues, crank up the music and get a FREAK'N ROCK BAND!!!!1!!!, you're merely turning worship into a concert. Kids get all pumped up at concerts all the time, but it isn't worship to God. If you merely copy the PUMP UP tactics of the non-Christian world then you're also just worshiping a fun concert experience.

Now I certainly don't believe its wrong to have fun during worship, and I certainly dont' believe its wrong to have a rock band during worship. However, its a very thin line to walk. By cranking up the volume and rock'n out the band you're certainly more likely to get kids into that moment, but you're using very shallow, worldly means to try and reach their heart.

With that said, worship has no style. "Rock" is the style of music that is most likely to naturally appeal to the most students in your typical suburban church. Theres no reason your band would choose a foreign musical style just to meet someone elses standards of what worship should look like.
Very similar to what I typed before I left work...and I accidentally hit the back button on the browser and lost everything.

Worship is not a musical style; it's a heart condition, it's a lifestyle, it's foresaking all else and telling God, "You are worthy, holy, redeemer, saviour, baptizer, creator, everlasting, provider, etc..."

However that looks to you in a musical form will be different depending on your age, your culture, your experience, your upbringing, and many other outside influencial aspects BUT those things that are true about God will not change which is why I believe Jesus made it so simply clear; worship in spirit and in truth.

In spirit and in truth.
That's it.
Be it rap, gospel, rock, hymns, African drums, messianic cantor, with fog machines and lasers, around the retreat campfire, at the little Baptist church on the corner of Anytown, USA...if we worship in spirit and in truth, that's what matters.
__________________
Lead, follow and get out of the way.

youtube
facebook
cd baby
gtrdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2006, 08:20 PM   #26
Okagesama de genki desu
 
metropolis4's Avatar
 

Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Aurora, Not just a place...
Posts: 2,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave
Very similar to what I typed before I left work...and I accidentally hit the back button on the browser and lost everything.

Worship is not a musical style; it's a heart condition, it's a lifestyle, it's foresaking all else and telling God, "You are worthy, holy, redeemer, saviour, baptizer, creator, everlasting, provider, etc..."

However that looks to you in a musical form will be different depending on your age, your culture, your experience, your upbringing, and many other outside influencial aspects BUT those things that are true about God will not change which is why I believe Jesus made it so simply clear; worship in spirit and in truth.

In spirit and in truth.
That's it.
Be it rap, gospel, rock, hymns, African drums, messianic cantor, with fog machines and lasers, around the retreat campfire, at the little Baptist church on the corner of Anytown, USA...if we worship in spirit and in truth, that's what matters.


Wow! I think this might be the first time you and I have agreed on something
metropolis4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2006, 02:50 AM   #27
Registered User
 

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 160
I've only been leading worship for about a year but what I learned is while leading worship, you shouldn't try to "create" the atmosphere of worship. I can see both sides of this argument about pumping up the crowd. It really is a double edge sword because it can leave someone feeling like they really worshipped god but all it really was, was the "pumped up" mood. On the other hand, it can really help people who arn't avid worshipers to start truely worshiping god. it's not your job to have everyone worship god. but that doesn't mean you should do anything that makes them stumble either.

Pumping up a crowd in a worship context isn't necessarly a bad thing. Everyone worships in their own way and not everyone will agree on one way of worshipping.

My way of pumping up a crowd is by not trying to pump up the crowd. I play my guitar and worship god. Sometimes its a loud rocking set and sometimes its just an acoustic guitar. If you worship god, the crowd will also worship.
coupon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2006, 10:58 AM   #28
torn in 2
 
Jumpinjoegraham's Avatar
 

Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Windsor On. Canada
Posts: 200
Oh yeah I'm at church

What a compelling topic. I've put it to my own personal wrestling match and I'm thinking hard about it.

We get there attention either through gathering in prayer, Funny drama, Video, Faced paced music. And then we go through times of powerfull corporate praise to intimate times of worship. So it's not the only thing we do.

One of my personal observations is that alot of people don't actually click in till the second or third song anyways or show up for that matter. Something triggers in them and they must think to themselves "Oh yeah I'm at church" LOL. So if you start with your thrust song like "majesty" or "Shout to the Lord" or whatever your anchor song is, You've most likely gone right over their heads and you haven't met them where they are. Mature christians who just like the intimate times of worship should have the patience to wait till the time comes.
__________________
Thank you Jesus.


<a href="http://spaces.msn.com/members/jgrahamcanada/">Go To My MSN Spaces site</a>
<a href="http://www.windsorchurches.com/worship24/">Go To My 24 hour worship service site</a>
Jumpinjoegraham is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2006, 12:54 PM   #29
Eaten by a grue
 
niangelo's Avatar
 

Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 2,114
I think we're forgetting the most important point, which is, of course, the beer in church.

Who wouldn't want a malty brew while listening to a sermon? I'm sold.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
That's why Jesus would use a 5-10 watt tube combo. Then Jesus can get that nice breakup He likes at a manageable volume. A volume that is somewhat formal but still says I'm here to party. Much like tuxedo t-shirt Jesus.
"If all experienced God in the same way and returned Him an identical worship, the song of the Church triumphant would have no symphony, it would be like an orchestra in which all the instruments played the same note." - C.S. Lewis
niangelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2006, 01:49 PM   #30
It All Comes Crashing
 
MMHMM RK's Avatar
 

Joined: Oct 2004
Location: I'm not sure...lemme check
Posts: 566
Send a message via AIM to MMHMM RK Send a message via MSN to MMHMM RK
I wouldn't. I think the way to get people to worship is to get where they are spiritually then help them get farther up than they've ever been before. if we're going straight into deep intimate worship, not that anything is wrong w/ it, you can very easily leave people "behind" in a great worship experience b/c they aren't that deep in a spiritual relationship w/ God.
__________________
Mi Myspace

"Ah, Ah, Ah, Ah, Ah, Ah
Now We Got a Big Big Mess On our Hands Tonight,
Sing it
Yeah!"
MMHMM RK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:29 AM.


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2