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Unread 09-01-2006, 08:53 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbfan View Post
Um...SG's...? Do they count? How about every other Gibson model? But yeah..we're talking about the whole world here.
Right, like I said, "the guitars that came after it vascilated about stylistically, while proving evolutionarily stagnant." The SG is merely a flat-body LP with two horns. No real innovation, unless you count a bit more access at the high frets. Actually read what I wrote. All of the Gibson line are basically the same guitar with different body shapes. Two 'buckers and a tune-o-matic bridge with a glued in neck on a (often) Mahogany body.


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Originally Posted by nbfan View Post
You can't force me to like a real sucky band.
What!?! Motorhead!?! A "sucky band"!?! Dude, you just lost all your rocker credibility. Sure, you don't have to own their boxset or anything, but, "a sucky band"!?! I'd ask if you were like 14 or 15 or something, but it wouldn't be relevant. Rainer was the shizzle at 13.

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Originally Posted by nbfan View Post
Whe it all comes down, side by side with mass produced, slab-bodied instruments, the LP is the one I choose. But don't get me wrong, If I got a Fender I'd get a Tele. Or a Jaguar. They're nice.
"Mass produced slab bodied instruments"!?! As opposed to the mass produced arch bodied instruments!?! You do realize that LPs are also mass produced on CNC machines, just like Fenders (and virtually every other production guitar out there).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
I love my Tele, I really do...but it's no Les Paul Standard and could only dream to be.
What, are you kidding!?! Glue the neck in place with epoxy, use a Mahogany body, and load it with humbuckers. Not much of a stretch, really. Also, what comparison would you make with an archtop LP and a flattop (slab?) LP?

Chesh

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Unread 09-01-2006, 09:58 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
Right, like I said, "the guitars that came after it vascilated about stylistically, while proving evolutionarily stagnant." The SG is merely a flat-body LP with two horns. No real innovation, unless you count a bit more access at the high frets. Actually read what I wrote. All of the Gibson line are basically the same guitar with different body shapes. Two 'buckers and a tune-o-matic bridge with a glued in neck on a (often) Mahogany body.




What!?! Motorhead!?! A "sucky band"!?! Dude, you just lost all your rocker credibility. Sure, you don't have to own their boxset or anything, but, "a sucky band"!?! I'd ask if you were like 14 or 15 or something, but it wouldn't be relevant. Rainer was the shizzle at 13.



"Mass produced slab bodied instruments"!?! As opposed to the mass produced arch bodied instruments!?! You do realize that LPs are also mass produced on CNC machines, just like Fenders (and virtually every other production guitar out there).



What, are you kidding!?! Glue the neck in place with epoxy, use a Mahogany body, and load it with humbuckers. Not much of a stretch, really. Also, what comparison would you make with an archtop LP and a flattop (slab?) LP?

Chesh
You know, not everybody builds and customizes guitars the way you do. And you guessed correctly, I'm 14.
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The key to great tone is really found in the kind of hand soap that you use.
For years I used a typical off-the-shelf bar-type soap and I had no idea that, even though I rinsed properly and thoroughly after every cleansing, there was still a soap scum residue on my hands and fingers.
This negatively affected my tone in ways that I just can't describe.
Then, on a whim, a few years ago I wandered into a Bath and Body Works store at a local mall and picked up some of their gentle foaming anti-bacterial hand cleansers.
The difference in my guitar's sound is so wickedly improved that I no longer feel the need to buy a new amp or pedals or even strings...EVER!
So, it's my belief that tone is in the soap.
Thank you and goodnight.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 10:09 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
What, are you kidding!?! Glue the neck in place with epoxy, use a Mahogany body, and load it with humbuckers. Not much of a stretch, really.

Chesh
You've missed the tune-o-matic, the stop tailpiece, the suspended pickguard, the 14 degree tilt-back headstock with 3/side tuners, the traditional 21 fret vs. 22 fret neck, traditional maple vs. mahogany neck AND rosewood fingerboard, ash body vs. mahogany AND carved-top maple body, body and neck binding and independant volume and tone controls.

The Tele is an exampe of engineering simplicity.
The Les Paul Model/Standard is and example of engineering beauty.

The stretch is very far.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 10:44 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
You've missed the tune-o-matic, the stop tailpiece, the suspended pickguard, the 14 degree tilt-back headstock with 3/side tuners, the traditional 21 fret vs. 22 fret neck, traditional maple vs. mahogany neck AND rosewood fingerboard, ash body vs. mahogany AND carved-top maple body, body and neck binding and independant volume and tone controls.

The Tele is an exampe of engineering simplicity.
The Les Paul Model/Standard is and example of engineering beauty.

The stretch is very far.
No Telecaster = No Les Paul.

That's mine and Chesh's point. Yes, the Les Paul is engineered and designed with a higher level of complexity than the Tele. But the Tele was the basis for all that. If there wasn't the Tele, then we wouldn't have the main blueprints of the Les Paul.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 10:51 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mattlock View Post
No Telecaster = No Les Paul.

That's mine and Chesh's point. Yes, the Les Paul is engineered and designed with a higher level of complexity than the Tele. But the Tele was the basis for all that. If there wasn't the Tele, then we wouldn't have the main blueprints of the Les Paul.
I highly, HIGHLY doubt that. The Les Paul was designed based on jazz box designs. The original "Log" that Les Paul designed was built in the mid-1940s. The original Telecaster design hit the market in 1950 (the Esquire).

Now I might buy that Gibson pushed the Les Paul design to market because of the success of Fender solid-bodies, but the reality is that the Gibson concept models pre-date the Fender products.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 11:01 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
What!?! Motorhead!?! A "sucky band"!?! Dude, you just lost all your rocker credibility. Sure, you don't have to own their boxset or anything, but, "a sucky band"!?! I'd ask if you were like 14 or 15 or something, but it wouldn't be relevant. Rainer was the shizzle at 13.
The single best Chesh quote of all time
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Unread 09-01-2006, 11:09 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattlock View Post
No Telecaster = No Les Paul.

That's mine and Chesh's point. Yes, the Les Paul is engineered and designed with a higher level of complexity than the Tele. But the Tele was the basis for all that. If there wasn't the Tele, then we wouldn't have the main blueprints of the Les Paul.
Study your guitar history and learn.

Look before the Tele and you'll see Paul Bigsby making solidbody guitars, Rickenbacher making lap steel electrics, and Gibson making ES guitars.
The Les Paul guitar came out of Lester's desire for a solid ES-style.

And don't mistake what I wrote regarding the Tele as a dig on it. It's a great guitar but it's no Les Paul Standard.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 11:15 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
Look before the Tele and you'll see Paul Bigsby making solidbody guitars, Rickenbacher making lap steel electrics, and Gibson making ES guitars.
The Les Paul guitar came out of Lester's desire for a solid ES-style.
Indeed, Paul Bigsby's guitar for Merle Travis was made in 1947. Ted McCarty, the designer of the Gibson Les Paul was an associate of Bigsby's before he went to work at Gibson.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 11:17 AM   #84
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Well, I'm sure Chesh's real point is that no matter the history, in all essence electric guitars don't have much seperating them. While they do have many different sounds and tone and engineering, when it comes to the hands of the player, it's the player that really matters, at least in terms of musical styling.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 11:20 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
And don't mistake what I wrote regarding the Tele as a dig on it. It's a great guitar but it's no Les Paul Standard.

In the hands of Jimmie Page, it might be.

I think Leo and Les both contributed greatly to the modern designs of the E guitar. No one person could do it all and I'm glad they don't. For myself, I like the invention of the cut out. Can you imagine having to play a dreadnaught shaped body all the way to the 21st, 22nd or 24th fret?
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Unread 09-01-2006, 11:40 AM   #86
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Yeah, I can. Not fun times. I like the invention of the 21, 22 and 24 fret neck, as well.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 12:01 PM   #87
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Yeah, I can. Not fun times. I like the invention of the 21, 22 and 24 fret neck, as well.

You made me think - the cutout probably resulted in more frets in the neck.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 12:23 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by nbfan View Post
You know, not everybody builds and customizes guitars the way you do.
1. Relevance? 2. Your point?
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Unread 09-01-2006, 12:29 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
1. Relevance? 2. Your point?
I'm saying, why make a Telecastere a Les Paul when you can just get a Les Paul? But that's off topic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
The key to great tone is really found in the kind of hand soap that you use.
For years I used a typical off-the-shelf bar-type soap and I had no idea that, even though I rinsed properly and thoroughly after every cleansing, there was still a soap scum residue on my hands and fingers.
This negatively affected my tone in ways that I just can't describe.
Then, on a whim, a few years ago I wandered into a Bath and Body Works store at a local mall and picked up some of their gentle foaming anti-bacterial hand cleansers.
The difference in my guitar's sound is so wickedly improved that I no longer feel the need to buy a new amp or pedals or even strings...EVER!
So, it's my belief that tone is in the soap.
Thank you and goodnight.
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Unread 09-01-2006, 12:52 PM   #90
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I'm saying, why make a Telecastere a Les Paul when you can just get a Les Paul? But that's off topic.
Well, cause Leo Fender wasn't trying to make a Les Paul. He was making a simple bolt-on neck guitar that was easy to maintain and play and could be sold at a reasonable price. I think you're trying to state your preference, but it does not mean we all want a LP. To me, and this is what I did, I have at least one of each type. That way, I'm not arguing with myself. I just pick up my guitars and play.

It would be good to read why these guys made their guitars in the first place. There are some good books out there. Also, keep in mind that in the early '50's, the biggest market for electric guitars was among country players, which was Leo's target and which had the most influence on his design. Today, it has stood the test of time and is still a popular guitar that is just as relevant today as back then.
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