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Unread 01-13-2006, 05:42 PM   #1
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Satans level of intelligence.

This is a spinoff from another thread. It is a debate that grew between lightknight and I over just how smart Satan is.

My contention is that Satan possesses a greater intelligence than any man.

He is the 4th most powerful being in the unioverse after the trinity. He ois the most beautiful of all created beings and filled with all intelligence. Iin my next post on this I will show why this is the only position we can and should take on who Satan is and how smart he is.

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Unread 01-13-2006, 05:46 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolidad
This is a spinoff from another thread. It is a debate that grew between lightknight and I over just how smart Satan is.

My contention is that Satan possesses a greater intelligence than any man.

He is the 4th most powerful being in the unioverse after the trinity. He ois the most beautiful of all created beings and filled with all intelligence. Iin my next post on this I will show why this is the only position we can and should take on who Satan is and how smart he is.
I agree whole-heartedly, Satan's intelligence is far greater than that of man. How could it not be, just based on mere experience it would have to be. He's been around since the creation of all things, so based on that alone he'd have to be more intelligent than humans.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 05:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolidad
He is the 4th most powerful being in the unioverse after the trinity. He ois the most beautiful of all created beings
Scripture?

He can't be that smart if he thought he could overcome the Trinity.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 06:35 PM   #4
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Okay let us take a look at the Word and see why we should though not fear the devil-- also not be so cavalier in iur attitude toward the enemy of our soul. From Ezekiel 28:


Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.


Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.


Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

This is the description of Satan-- at this time Tyrus had a prince but not a king-- this lament was against the spiritual ruler behingd the physical ruler.

He is the anointed cherub that covers-- the word anointed is mamshach and is a root for the word messiah. According to Jewish teaching this meant that all the praise of heaven was funnelled through Lucifer

Sealest upi the sum-- when God made Lucifer He was the height of all creation-- the blueprint

full of wisdom-- unless we can find a vwerse that shows that Satan lost his intelligence -- the bible clearly shows him to be a very smart operstor.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 07:25 PM   #5
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I will agree to this point...

NOTE: Very important that you get the context of what Jude says here.

Jude points out to us here:
Quote:
Jude (NKJV)
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, ďThe Lord rebuke you!Ē 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
Men who speak of the Devil as if he was something to contend with, are foolish and more than likely blinded by the devil himself. We should have nothing to do with him [but to rebuke the devil]; Submit [pray to God] in Christ Jesus first, then resist the devil as James points out.

James 4:7 (NKJV) Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

As far as his authority and all, ignorantly studying him dangles in dangerous territory.The devil is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

Agreed: Nolidad said
Quote:
My contention is that Satan possesses a greater intelligence than any man.
His is worldly wise, an ancient defeated foe.
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Last edited by Elationist; 01-13-2006 at 08:09 PM.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 07:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolidad
He is the 4th most powerful being in the unioverse after the trinity. He ois the most beautiful of all created beings and filled with all intelligence. Iin my next post on this I will show why this is the only position we can and should take on who Satan is and how smart he is.
You mean second most powerful being don't you?
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Unread 01-13-2006, 09:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exo
You mean second most powerful being don't you?
He is counting the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit seperately. He still believes they are one as the trinity, it's just hard to explain as always. This still can't possibly be true, every Christian on Earth is more "powerful" than Satan. Every angel in heaven is backed by God. Even the weakest country in the world could become stronger than most if it was backed by the super power countries.

As for knowledge, does Satan even have a perfect memory? He was never all knowing and the Bible makes it explicitly clear that Satan doesn't know things like the date of the judgement day. He has been cut off from the flowing wisdom and knowledge and insight that come from God whereas the angels and many Christians are certainly not. I'd say that the fall made him far weaker than he was in Heaven. This is because power and strength come from the Father, and he fell away from that to his own strength.

As for appearance, we do not know if he still possesses those features or if the stripping of his authority and position also led to a changing of his features.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 10:04 PM   #8
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Well

LightKnight said:
Quote:
This still can't possibly be true, every Christian on Earth is more "powerful" than Satan. Every angel in heaven is backed by God. Even the weakest country in the world could become stronger than most if it was backed by the super power countries.
Positionally yes, we are only "more" powerful in Christ. But apart from Him, we can do nothing.
To say that we are more powerful than the devil to true positionally but even the temptation of the devil gets the best Christians to disobey God. He is no one to tangle with but yes, He is a defeated foe.

He is not in submission to us-> He is only in submission to GOD. Not to the church (Body)...but to our Head, Christ Jesus. All things are under His authority. Therefore in this sense, Satan is more "powerful". But I see this debate has two good sides to it, and with proper definition of what is meant by the words used, then the agreement is clear. It's all in what you mean by.

Satan's kingdom is thwarted [past & future tense] but it is evident that he is still moving through out the world destroying even those who are weak, even within the church.

John the Apostle writes, (1 John 4:4b) "HE that is in you is greater than he that is in the world": Note: it does not say, you are greater than he that is in the world.

But the devil flees!~ That's right, he flees when we submit properly to our God. He doesn't flee when we want him to on our will, but on God's will. So this is a deep topic. I can't wait to see how it comes out.

Matthew 16:18 (NIV) 18 "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

1 John 4:4 (KJV) Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

P.S. Have a great weekend inthe LORD our GOD!
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TOOLS to use for your study in Q & A --www.bible.gospelcom.net [35 lang. with 50 versions];www.blueletterbible.org [Hebrew & Greek Lexicon];www.onelook.com; www.ask.com And get a real hard back Concordance on your desk, I find it's faster and easier than the online ones.

Study Evangelism FREE: www.WayOfTheMaster.com PM me and let me know what you think about this. P.S. Thank you to those of you who have been responding!


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Unread 01-13-2006, 10:20 PM   #9
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It doesn't matter that we are only this powerful because of Christ, the fact is that we do have Christ and thus we are more powerful than Satan.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 11:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightknight
It doesn't matter that we are only this powerful because of Christ, the fact is that we do have Christ and thus we are more powerful than Satan.
I don't know. I think Satan could beat you in a fight. Though I don't know who would win in a fight between Satan and Sephiroth, or Dante.
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Unread 01-14-2006, 10:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightknight
He is counting the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit seperately. He still believes they are one as the trinity, it's just hard to explain as always. This still can't possibly be true, every Christian on Earth is more "powerful" than Satan. Every angel in heaven is backed by God. Even the weakest country in the world could become stronger than most if it was backed by the super power countries.
As Trinitarians we hold that God is one being... they are not separate in essences or beings. Therefore, the claim should be that Satan would be the second most powerful being. I'm sure that nolidad just misspoke, but with all the recent oneness discussions, I thought it important to make that small clarification.
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Unread 01-14-2006, 10:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exo
As Trinitarians we hold that God is one being... they are not separate in essences or beings. Therefore, the claim should be that Satan would be the second most powerful being. I'm sure that nolidad just misspoke, but with all the recent oneness discussions, I thought it important to make that small clarification.
Yeah, good catch. He is most certainly trinitarian but we have to be careful in regards to those reading this thread to emphasize what he meant.
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Unread 01-14-2006, 11:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qingu
I don't know. I think Satan could beat you in a fight. Though I don't know who would win in a fight between Satan and Sephiroth, or Dante.
In a fight against Satan, I would win every time. Because even the name of Christ is stronger than him and I would use it against him. Consider it like the "Ultima/Holy/Curaga/Ice 4/Fire 4/Lightning 4/Omnislash/etc." all rolled up into one spell .
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Unread 01-14-2006, 11:22 AM   #14
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I don't know if this has any relevence, you tell me.

Satan is a fallen angel from the realms of the heavenlies who was cast out (whether you believe before genesis or during genesis, i dont care) Now if he is an angel of darkness, then would these verses apply to him?

Ephesians 3:8-11 ~ To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Peter 1:12 ~ It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things into which angels long to look.


So obviously according to these texts we have more knowledge about the eternal plan of God, but in accordance to His Word and what He has revealed to us (partly through that of Christ Jesus). Satan and the demons did not know He was going to rise from the dead, however Satan knows Scripture but does not know the meaning behind it.

We know more about God's character, Satan knows more about the heavenly places and the spiritual realm. That's my oppinion
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Unread 01-14-2006, 11:27 AM   #15
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Hmmm, interesting points Andy,
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