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Unread 12-30-2005, 09:22 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Incidentally, I barred both 588755 and 588765 just fine, altho the last one was a bit tricky, but I got the hang of it. Actually, it lead to a rather interesting chord prog.

I say just do whatever works. But, that said, I have seen too many people use capos as an excuse not to read a book or learn a little something new.

I personally like the idea of using capos a lot, but only as a powerful tool for leveraging possibilities, and not mere transposition, which usually means playing the same open Kumbiya chords a few frets up.

I mean, if you're gonna use one, then dang it, you'd better use a lot of drone strings or exotic chord voicings or something that otherwise transcends what you can do after having read the first few pages of FBL SE to get the most out of it.

Otherwise, why bother?
Well, yeah, exactly. I too know a lot of guitarists who just use it the play the same open chord shapes they're used to further up on the fret board. Sometimes that's just fine as well (have a listen to Cabrone on the RHCP By The Way album), other times it's very boring. Boring seems to be the choice of many christian musicians these days though....(yeah, secular artists too, but I don't have to hear that crap when I go into my church....)

But my point is pretty much that barre chords are not always feasable, even if the chords can be played as barre chords. What fits the song is important, not what technique you use to get there. I believe you made a very similar argument recently in a thread refering to scalloped fret boards being "cheats" (can't stand them myself, but I use jumbo frets already so...).

And ok, those can be done with barre chords I guess, but if you understood the context in which I play them, you'd see why I just slap a capo on there.

In real life discussions like this are so much easier, we'd just whip out our guitars, and the winner tells the loser to "shaddup yo mouth!"

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Unread 12-31-2005, 05:32 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Incidentally, I barred both 588755 and 588765 just fine, altho the last one was a bit tricky, but I got the hang of it. Actually, it lead to a rather interesting chord prog.

In any context but guitar playing this statement would sound really strange: You must have a large pinky sir.

but seriously for 588765, do you play both 8's with your pinky, 7-middle, 6-index, and barre the 5th? I can do it that way, but it's very uncomfortable. I suppose my pinky is my biggest weakness as a guitarist though.
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Unread 12-31-2005, 02:33 PM   #48
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I think it's fine. It's just to help you out.

And for all you guys who say capos are bad, what about the sheet music you use for chords or tabs? You guys are professionals if you don't use a capo, so at the same time you should be able to hear a song and make the chords and switches right off the top of your head. See, using chord sheets in this situation will also kill you if you can't use a capo on an electric.
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Unread 12-31-2005, 03:12 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decency
You guys are professionals if you don't use a capo, so at the same time you should be able to hear a song and make the chords and switches right off the top of your head.
Praise God, I can but that's because I have a very good, very trained ear and have been doing this music/guitar thing for 2 and a half decades.
Many times for me, a chart is more of a hinderance than a help.

Lyrics on the other hand...

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Unread 12-31-2005, 03:24 PM   #50
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personally i don't think it makes you any better or worse whether you use a capo or not. that seems to be contrary to some opinions though. i guess it depends on who you are trying to impress or what standard you're trying to attain for whatever reason. the general music listening public in addition to some guitar players like myself could care less. if you want to use it, use it. if not, then don't. if you don't, don't rag on someone else for using one.

i come at it from a different angle than a lot of guitarists though. i'm not a guitarist's guitarist so to speak and i doubt i ever will be, especially since that's never been a goal of mine. like i said earlier, the capo is just a tool. the guitar itself is just another tool for music.
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Unread 01-12-2006, 04:35 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteve
the tonal difference is going to be present because the string gauges are different, and the sustain is different.
And because your fingers have to be stronger to properly hold a barre chord on an acoustic.

I think the best use of capos, on acoustics or electrics, is when you are playing something that uses open strings, and desire to be in a key where said open strings are not readily available. This usually ends up being on acoustic to me, because I think open strings sound better on an acoustic.
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Unread 01-12-2006, 06:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomaspg70
does it sound good? i thought about doing it for better solos and stuff.
i dont know if a capo would help your solos. i prefer to not use a capo if im playing lead and the rhythm guitarist is using a capo. just change what key your soloing in instead of putting capo on.
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Unread 01-12-2006, 09:44 PM   #53
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I use a capo whenever my fingers end up being too short (darn 15 fret long stretches!), I don't have enough fingers, or using my fingers is excessively awkward, which can be relieved by using a capo. A capo is one of the handier tools in my lead guitar toybox.
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Unread 01-12-2006, 09:51 PM   #54
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i understand what everyone is saying about capos.. but ive been to a heck of alot of David Crowder Band concerts and they love using capos, even the electric guitarists..

i think they down tune and have a capo on the whole time and move it up and down the neck accordingly to each song.

i think a capo is a really useful tool and if you dont wanna use it, thats your choice, but why not use it.. it's there
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Unread 01-12-2006, 10:17 PM   #55
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This thread makes me laugh. Remember in the old days when we used to have threads almost as volatile as the ones in Theology? Capo's were a regular topic. I think it was all Chesh's fault too...

Back to reading from the first page where I posted this from
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Unread 01-12-2006, 10:47 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey
I think it was all Chesh's fault too...
My fault? What, theology?
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Unread 01-12-2006, 11:05 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
My fault? What, theology?
I'm talking about how we used to have heated discussions akin to the ones that Theology forums are notorious for.
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Unread 01-12-2006, 11:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey
I'm talking about how we used to have heated discussions akin to the ones that Theology forums are notorious for.
Well, I don't think they were heated. "Lively", for sure. Tho, I do remember getting into it with some noobs (to the site, that is) who were, shall we say, lacking in social ettiquette . . . and nettiquette for that matter.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 09:33 AM   #59
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The Capo concept is a funny one, and I do know some purists (and see there are some here) that still think it's cheating.

It seems like we've been given a good tool to accomplish what we're trying to accomplish, just like a pick, effects, or whatever. If you want to be really pure about it, we'd all be on pure acoustic, no mics, no effects, fingerpicking everything. Oh, and no alternate tunings allowed, you should just figure out how to play the song in the standard tuning.

Sometimes, capos are a great way to transpose the song without really messing with alternative chord structures. In a worship setting, a ton of songs can't be sung in the original key (ie: any newsboys song), so why reinvent it, you can drop to a singable level pretty easy and capo it and play it as it was written.

I have to go practice my "love song" by third day, capo'd at the 3rd fret.
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Unread 01-13-2006, 12:34 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youth4him
The Capo concept is a funny one, and I do know some purists (and see there are some here) that still think it's cheating.
I don't think it's a cheat . . . I think it's a crutch . . . more often than not.

Quote:
It seems like we've been given a good tool to accomplish what we're trying to accomplish, just like a pick, effects, or whatever. If you want to be really pure about it, we'd all be on pure acoustic, no mics, no effects, fingerpicking everything. Oh, and no alternate tunings allowed, you should just figure out how to play the song in the standard tuning.

Sometimes, capos are a great way to transpose the song without really messing with alternative chord structures. In a worship setting, a ton of songs can't be sung in the original key (ie: any newsboys song), so why reinvent it, you can drop to a singable level pretty easy and capo it and play it as it was written.
Well, first off, I think it is an excellent tool with an amazing power to leverage resources when it comes to playing things with, for example, drone notes that aren't normally open strings, or other such innovative approaches and applications. In that regard, it isn't a cheat, but a tool.

However, 90% of the time that it is used . . . and I would err on 95% for that matter . . . it is used because the guitarist in question is grossly ignorant about barre chords, and what you can actually do with them.

Plus, I don't do a lot of (read: any ) praise and worship songs, so I still don't get this concept of different keys and one key being harder than another and so on.

I mean, when you have a full compliment of barre chords at your disposal, and integrated at that thanks to the CAGED System, then exactly how is one key going to be different from another? Transposing should be as simple as moving your compliment of barre chords up a few frets just as you would a capo.

I mean, with a barre chord, you have 12 different places within the octave to play that chord (and it's siblings). That should more than cover your 12 different keys.

So, iow, if I'm vamping along on some barre chords at or around the 4th position, and I wanted to transpose something 3 frets higher, then why reach for a capo? Why not just play those chord forms three frets higher, around the 7th fret?

Unless you're playing with drone strings or doing incredibly exotic chord voicings, exactly how are different keys a factor?

I always wondered this. Could a theory ace like Nate or someone weigh in on this?

And I mean, give me an insightful, educated, experienced answer beyond "it's easier to strum Kumbiya up higher on the neck" or something.

Chesh
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