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Unread 12-30-2005, 11:58 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave
Second of all, yes, there's only 5 physical notes being restricted when using the capo at fret 5 but there's a host of inversions and string timbres that are being restricted by capoing at fret 5. But again, if it works for a particular song, I don't see a problem using the capo at fret 5 or wherever..
(emphasis mine)...I think this is the point of alot of people saying, "hey I capo on electric"...sure we can transpose the position of the song and still get all of the right notes, but not necessarily the desired inversions, timbres, drones, etc. we may be restricting ourselves in terms of other songs...but when we get to those songs we can just take the capo off.

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Unread 12-30-2005, 12:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteve
(emphasis mine)...I think this is the point of alot of people saying, "hey I capo on electric"...sure we can transpose the position of the song and still get all of the right notes, but not necessarily the desired inversions, timbres, drones, etc. we may be restricting ourselves in terms of other songs...but when we get to those songs we can just take the capo off.
Exactamundo.

I've had a couple occasions in the studio where the request was to lay down a high-strung/Nashville-tuned acoustic track yet no Nashville-tuned acoustic as around and studio time/budget limits being what they are would not allow for a restring or guitar aquisition.

So I did an alternate/open tuning, slapped a capo on the 7th, 8th or whatever fret and went to town.
And I've done similar without a capo but the voicing/timbre that was desired worked well with my fingers and didn't require a capo.

All that said, I toast the thing that is the capo
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Unread 12-30-2005, 12:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave
First of all, where did I say that I refuse to use a capo?

I own 5 of them and I use them. I also support the use of them. I don't support them being used as a crutch to prohibit learning. I use them, like I try to use everything, as a complimentary tool.

Please don't read more into what I write than what is actually there. I'm not using parables and metaphors.

Second of all, yes, there's only 5 physical notes being restricted when using the capo at fret 5 but there's a host of inversions and string timbres that are being restricted by capoing at fret 5. But again, if it works for a particular song, I don't see a problem using the capo at fret 5 or wherever.

I'm not anti-capo.
I wasn't saying you refused to use a capo....in fact I was more agreeing with you that a capo shouldn't be a crutch, and pointing out that it is a useful tool much as you did. So "Please don't read more into what I write than what is actually there". You don't have to be hostile.

I understand that the timbres are restricted, but I also don't need those. And since I'm mostly only anal about the way my rythm sounds, and not so much my lead, there is only really 5 notes that I'm missing....
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Unread 12-30-2005, 12:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffon
I wasn't saying you refused to use a capo....in fact I was more agreeing with you that a capo shouldn't be a crutch, and pointing out that it is a useful tool much as you did. So "Please don't read more into what I write than what is actually there". You don't have to be hostile.

I understand that the timbres are restricted, but I also don't need those. And since I'm mostly only anal about the way my rythm sounds, and not so much my lead, there is only really 5 notes that I'm missing....
Sorry, not trying to be hostile. I sometimes forget to use smileys to convey my actual mood. It's light. Here, see:
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Unread 12-30-2005, 12:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by thesteve
(emphasis mine)...I think this is the point of alot of people saying, "hey I capo on electric"...sure we can transpose the position of the song and still get all of the right notes, but not necessarily the desired inversions, timbres, drones, etc. we may be restricting ourselves in terms of other songs...but when we get to those songs we can just take the capo off.
But that happens any time you try to transpose music with guitar.
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Unread 12-30-2005, 12:18 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by gtrdave
Sorry, not trying to be hostile. I sometimes forget to use smileys to convey my actual mood. It's light. Here, see:
heh, ok, you're forgiven. (I don't use smileys, but take me lightly)

but, basically my point was that a capo gives more than it takes away, if it's used properly. I use them sparingly, but I find them to be a very useful tool at times.
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Unread 12-30-2005, 12:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffon
But that happens any time you try to transpose music with guitar.
that was my point...and sometimes it's fine, and other times it gives undesired results.
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Unread 12-30-2005, 01:07 PM   #38
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There are certain songs in our worship team repertoire where I need to maintain the same fingering in order to play the signature licks. One example is ďEvery Move I Make,Ē which involves the use of an open G string as a drone note. When the worship leader requests that we do the song in, say, G#, Iíll reach for my capo.

Personally, Iíd rather not use a capo during a set because putting it on takes me out of the flow for a few precious seconds, but there are instances where the benefits greatly outweigh the disadvantages.
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Unread 12-30-2005, 02:54 PM   #39
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My biggest beef about capo users is this: They (very generalized i know) slap a capo on the second fret and all of a sudden 244322 becomes an E major to them. And they proceed to write all their chord sheets that way. I'm usually decent at transposing on the spot but it still irritates me. Hundreds of years of music theory doesn't suddenly change the instant you pull out the capo. An F# is still an F#, not an E!

Just think what the world would be like if everytime someone uses an A form barre chord, that chord becomes an A.

In Griffon's case, there's nothing wrong with capo usage. Although that first chord doesn't really hurt my hands and I have fairly short fingers for a guitarist. There's nothing wrong with using your thumb to play root notes. Some jazz guitarists do it all the time. But I can't get both of those 8th fret notes with my pinky, so I would also need a capo to play that exact voicing of that chord.
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Unread 12-30-2005, 05:03 PM   #40
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I use my thumb at times, and a capo at other times, this songs rythm and chord progression call for a capo, others (most) call for freedom across the entire fret board.

And yeah, it's really irritating when I read a piece of music (chord sheet....) and try and play the chords against a recording.....I don't read instructions, so I always end up figuring it out by ear and -then- reading the "capo third fret, sounds one minor third higher than written".....
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Unread 12-30-2005, 05:25 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrdave
I'm not anti-capo.
Nor am I, but I have seen guitarists who would be totally lost without them for even the most rudimentary of tasks.

More later.
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Unread 12-30-2005, 06:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Nor am I, but I have seen guitarists who would be totally lost without them for even the most rudimentary of tasks.

More later.
Yes, but the same can be said for nearly every guitar tool (IE distortion, whammy/wang/vibe-bar/nimrod, reverb, thin strings/thick strings, etc..).

So yes you can use capo on electric, it doesn't hurt anything, and it doesn't mean you're a bad guitarist. Though generally, the acoustic players that use them and are considered "good" guitarists aren't, with a few exceptions....
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Unread 12-30-2005, 07:00 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffon
Yes, but the same can be said for nearly every guitar tool (IE distortion, whammy/wang/vibe-bar/nimrod, reverb, thin strings/thick strings, etc..).

So yes you can use capo on electric, it doesn't hurt anything, and it doesn't mean you're a bad guitarist. Though generally, the acoustic players that use them and are considered "good" guitarists aren't, with a few exceptions....
Incidentally, I barred both 588755 and 588765 just fine, altho the last one was a bit tricky, but I got the hang of it. Actually, it lead to a rather interesting chord prog.

I say just do whatever works. But, that said, I have seen too many people use capos as an excuse not to read a book or learn a little something new.

I personally like the idea of using capos a lot, but only as a powerful tool for leveraging possibilities, and not mere transposition, which usually means playing the same open Kumbiya chords a few frets up.

I mean, if you're gonna use one, then dang it, you'd better use a lot of drone strings or exotic chord voicings or something that otherwise transcends what you can do after having read the first few pages of FBL SE to get the most out of it.

Otherwise, why bother?
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Unread 12-30-2005, 07:30 PM   #44
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i'm not an electric player, so i don't know whether this is true there, but i find that when barreing acoustic chords it muffles the strings, so a cleaner tone can be achieved with a capo. that's not always what you want, but it's sometimes exactly what you need. is that same tonal difference present on electrics?
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Unread 12-30-2005, 07:35 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhorn26
i'm not an electric player, so i don't know whether this is true there, but i find that when barreing acoustic chords it muffles the strings, so a cleaner tone can be achieved with a capo. that's not always what you want, but it's sometimes exactly what you need. is that same tonal difference present on electrics?
the tonal difference is going to be present because the string gauges are different, and the sustain is different.
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