[Jo Mo]

I took this out of my Blog and pasted it here. I felt impressed to share this with others. Hope it blesses you as you read.

I have been reading something that has caught my eye lately. Check it out-

Rom 14:1-5
14:1 Give a warm welcome to any brother who wants to join you, even though his faith is weak. Don't criticize him for having different ideas from yours about what is right and wrong.

2 For instance, don't argue with him about whether or not to eat meat that has been offered to idols. You may believe there is no harm in this, but the faith of others is weaker; they think it is wrong and will go without any meat at all and eat vegetables rather than eat that kind of meat. 3 Those who think it is all right to eat such meat must not look down on those who won't. And if you are one of those who won't, don't find fault with those who do. For God has accepted them to be his children. 4 They are God's servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should.


TLB

This is whats wrong with many churches. We immediately judge those who come in with ideas about the bible that is'nt generally our own beliefs. But God says through Paul, "Accept them regardless of what they have been taught. Because God himself will tell them if they are wrong by the Spirit of God". If they don't wear their clothes, or hair or makeup like we do, leave them alone. Only Love them and bless and welcome them into our abode of fellowship. I remember one time back in the early 80's. I decided to go to church wearing my slack pants. A dress shirt and a suit jacket with the shirt buttons open at the top, 2 buttons and reveal my cross necklace that I had purchased once. I looked rather sexy you know. But, that was not my intention. I played the guitar in the praise team at this time. There was a couple who obviously were Holiness or Pentecostal. You know the hair in a bun for the ladies and clean cut shaved face for the men. I went up to them to welcome them to the church. I could'nt help noticing the look on their faces when they saw the the open shirt and necklace. It accurred to me later that I generally did'nt dress like that to church and thought, "Why did I do that". I think I know why. I think it was God showing them that it is'nt what you wear that counts but how you wear it.

God looks on the inside of our hearts not on the outside. He sees right through us when we think we can hide. This is why I decided to look at the heart of people rather than looking at their outward appearances. Somebody may not look right at first, but if you wait long enough and watch their action and life first. You will begin to see their hearts more clearly. Of course some people know how to hide their hearts. But soon God himself will reveal them when He sees fit to show them to Spirit sensitive servants who listen to God. So that perhaps they will be reached for them to realize He knows all about them and cares about them. That has happen many times to me in the past. When God wanted to get my attention he would speak through a man/woman of God to let me know, "Hey I see you and you are making a mistake" or "Hey, I know all about that situation that you have been praying about, I am on it".

Getting back to judging. I have been impressed to do a study on this subject and call it, "What Part Of 'Judge Not' That We Dont Understand?". This is an all too common problem among churches and christians alike. We are cutting off the spiritual connection between them and God and may in the mean time lose their souls because of our judging them so cruelly. Jesus said something so strongly once about this.

Matt 18:5-6

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
KJV

The Lord impressed me that the little ones are the new born-again christians, the new converts in other words. Remember in Romans 14:4?

. 4 They are God's servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should

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God has'nt called us to judge or condemn anyone. But he has called us to Love As He (the Lord) Has Loved Us. Go back and read the gospel accounts how Jesus loved everyone. Especially the disciples.

Becky said:
while you say that... and what you say is true.. you have to be careful, because that's just the way they were taught. So yes it needs to be talked about, but don't judge them for their judgmentalness. Teach them the truth by example.

that's just something i've thought alot about on that topic.. I use to be extreamly judgmental, and then God showed me not to be, and suddenly I became judgmental of the judgmental Christians.. which I found out was just as bad!

Yeah, I have found myself doing the same thing. Judging a judgemental person can be just as bad. Thankfully we have an example, Jesus. Although he knew Judas would be the betrayer, he loved him as his own blood brother. Imagine loving someone YOU knew would betray you. Brrr, that would be hard. Peter, in his prideful way, betrayed Jesus when he denied knowing him during the hearings of the High Priests Council. Imagine even being denied by your best buddy.

Although the disciples did not fully understand Jesus in his teaching while still holding the old teachings of the law and traditions of men. Did Jesus judge them for not believing? No, he kept loving them as his own. A Centurion came to him, a Roman soldier, And asked Jesus only to say the word that his servant be healed. Jesus astounded by his remark about ones own authority and believing that Jesus had the same in his words, said, " I have not found so great faith, not even among the beleivers" Jesus, said the word and the servant was healed.(Matt. 8:5-13) A Centurion, an unbeliever, although he believed Jesus could heal, walked away blessed by Jesus. Jesus did'nt say, "Oh sorry sir, but, hah, uh you don't believe like we do. I can't heal him. So, go away". That is the example sinners and believers are seeing in churches, or even in the public places for that matter. Our objective is to win the lost, not lose them. Look at what Paul says-

1 Cor 9:17-23

17 If I were volunteering my services of my own free will, then the Lord would give me a special reward; but that is not the situation, for God has picked me out and given me this sacred trust, and I have no choice. 18 Under this circumstance, what is my pay? It is the special joy I get from preaching the Good News without expense to anyone, never demanding my rights.
19 And this has a real advantage: I am not bound to obey anyone just because he pays my salary; yet I have freely and happily become a servant of any and all so that I can win them to Christ. 20 When I am with the Jews I seem as one of them so that they will listen to the Gospel and I can win them to Christ. When I am with Gentiles who follow Jewish customs and ceremonies I don't argue, even though I don't agree, because I want to help them. 21 When with the heathen I agree with them as much as I can, except of course that I must always do what is right as a Christian. And so, by agreeing, I can win their confidence and help them too.
22 When I am with those whose consciences bother them easily, I don't act as though I know it all and don't say they are foolish; the result is that they are willing to let me help them. Yes, whatever a person is like, I try to find common ground with him so that he will let me tell him about Christ and let Christ save him. 23 I do this to get the Gospel to them and also for the blessing I myself receive when I see them come to Christ.
TLB

You see, even Paul had to struggle with his judgementalism by lowering himself to become like others in whatever possible way to win them to Christ. Here is our example to follow. Not to enbold them with our beliefs but to save the soul. The Gospel is the power to salvation, not our tenets of faiths.

Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
KJV

[tjguitar]

I really like what you had to say. Interesting read.

[April Showers]

wow its awesome how God works. He opened my heart and showed me that I too am judging when I should be loving. Thanks for posting God bless.

[Jo Mo]

I was impressed to post in here to keep this message available on front page of the thread count. I did this because of a recent incident that happened in CGR. No offence intended. I hope that those who read will be helped in their walk with Christ. Go to the beginning and read. God Bless.

-John.

[Jeffrey]

It's time to close the devotionals forum. Honestly, these topics should either go into Theology to receive a sort of peer review (anyone notice how most of these are ignored, with the few that have comments receiving just basic two sentence accolades?) or be sent to the user's blogs. Devotionals has this feeling that if you challenge these people who are purporting to be passing on wisdom for applying Scripture, you're being rude. Honestly, I don't think CGR's equipped for these. Anyway...

Originally Posted by Jo Mo

I remember one time back in the early 80's. I decided to go to church wearing my slack pants. A dress shirt and a suit jacket with the shirt buttons open at the top, 2 buttons and reveal my cross necklace that I had purchased once. I looked rather sexy you know. But, that was not my intention. I played the guitar in the praise team at this time. There was a couple who obviously were Holiness or Pentecostal. You know the hair in a bun for the ladies and clean cut shaved face for the men. I went up to them to welcome them to the church. I could'nt help noticing the look on their faces when they saw the the open shirt and necklace. It accurred to me later that I generally did'nt dress like that to church and thought, "Why did I do that". I think I know why. I think it was God showing them that it is'nt what you wear that counts but how you wear it.

So it's okay if I wear my hair in a mohawk, show up to church with just a vest over my bare chest, and wear tight leather pants. I mean, who are they to judge? If they're distracted, it's their fault. I am not merely trying to build a Straw Man, I'm trying to test your take on your own position. Would you have been okay showing up in the cool punk rock attire of the late 80's? Plaid pants, suspenders, boots, like a ska-punker of Boston of that era?

Food for thought: you may have been the weaker believer. At least, that may be what you are implying. In Paul's verse about meat sacrificed to idols, he devotes a good amount of time explaining to the weaker believers that eating meat sacrificed to idols is okay. What you seem to be advocating is "Love them and leave them as they are until God convicts them." Unless you're implying the Pentacostals you describe were the weaker ones for thinking distracting clothing was inappropiate.


Part of our walk with Christ is our freedom in Christ, a guarded freedom that is not ashamed of what Christ allows us to do but is careful to force growth on others. Why not lovingly educate a weaker believer on proper living? You seem to be reveling in the fact that you (and you seem to remember all the details quite well) were wearing something cool that the Pentecostals couldn't relate to. Let me see: you're playing guitar in the worship band, dressing cool...we're not supposed to believe that your own hipness was part of your motivation? We're supposed to believe that it wasn't until they stared at you that you realized what you wore might be distracting? Fine, we won't judge you, you've stacked the deck against us. But I think common sense says something's fishy there. If anything, if you're up front, you should probably go for middle-of-the-road so you don't improperly challenge the convictions of those submitting to your leadership in worship.

Anyway, let's look at this verse you quote: "They are God's servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should." Not sure what this translation is. Let's look at the English Standard Version: "Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

So, Jo Mo, how does a weaker believer grow to know what is proper? God just magically reveals it? Of course you and I would not agree with that, and hopefully neither is advocating that. It seems to me most of us grew in our knowledge of the Lord not merely from visions suddenly given, but from our time in the Word (where God-inspired writers such as Paul were very direct about what is right and wrong and left few gray areas). And on top of that, in order to understand much of that Word, the spiritual guidance of those in leadership. Why would Paul tell Timothy to find trustworthy men to guard His truth if God would just reveal it to each weaker believer in due time? The Church is a mechanism of that. If it's okay to drink (and Biblically it's not only okay, it's celebrated and one of the reasons God created plants (Psalm 104), a believer should know. So I'd be wary of a church that didn't want its weaker believers to know of something wonderful God's created. By pointing them toward that Scripture and letting older men in a position to teach instruct them, they're going to challenge their beliefs. That's part of growth. A new believer in Paul's time thinks meat sacrificed to idols is wrong. Someone in our era thinks cigars and brandy are wrong. Both will grow in Christ and learn about Christian freedoms. And the church is there to help them on that process.

And you talk selectively about Christ judging. Tell me how the Pharisees felt when Christ called them a brood of vipers, compared them to white-washed tombs, so forth. That was harsh. And of course He was the Christ. So let's look at Paul, who had some not-so-G-rated comments to make about folks advocating circumcision for all believers. Paul himself instructs us (commands us!) in 1 Corinthians 6, much like Christ did in Matthew 18, to exercise righteous judgment in order to be able to confront Christians in sin.

So the issue isn't merely judging, it's the standard by which we judge. We are warned that as we judge others, so we also are judged -- not that judging itself is bad. Paul in the opening chapters of Romans has strong words for those who condemn theft but steal themselves, or condemn adultery but commit adultery. But he doesn't outright condemn the confrontation of others. If he did, he'd be contradicting himself and the Messiah, both of whom called us to exercise judgment on others based on a righteous standard.

I agree that judging people off clothing is wrong. I guess I grew up in a laid-back church that didn't have the baggage of judging people's clothing. But we must be careful not to confuse judgment with righteous judgment. We're called to do the latter as part of our service to one another in Christ.

[Drew Neal]

Originally Posted by Jo Mo

God has'nt called us to judge or condemn anyone. But he has called us to Love As He (the Lord) Has Loved Us.

Originally Posted by The Amplified Bible

I Cor 6:2,3
Do you not know that the saints (the believers) will [one day] judge and govern the world? And if the world [itself] is to be judged and ruled by you, are you unworthy and incompetent to try [such petty matters] of the smallest courts of justice? Do you not know also that we [Christians] are to judge the [very] angels and pronounce opinion between right and wrong [for them]? How much more then [as to] matters pertaining to this world and of this life only!

Originally Posted by Jo Mo

Go back and read the gospel accounts how Jesus loved everyone. Especially the disciples.

Originally Posted by NLT

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’(Emphasis mine)

It is clear that there is judgment both on deciples by Jesus and across the body by believers. The difference is in the kind of judgement we exicute. The personal judgement forbidden by the Bible is distructive judgement, except in extreeme cases which I feel are out of scope in this post.

The parable I like to give is the this. There once was a man who owned a home and had two neighbors, one was the local housing code inspector and the other was a handy man by trade.

Once day it became apparent that this man did not take care of the necessary maintenance, the house was in decay and was nearly uninhabitable.

The first to rise that morning was the local housing code inspector, who upon seeing the condition of his neighbors home walked over to his door and pounded on it. Once the door was opened to him the inspector yelled and screamed about property values, pest infestations and fire code and as he tromped off added one final tidbit that he was going to begin condemnation proceedings on the house as soon as he reached the office.

All the noise and commotion woke the other neighbor, the handy man. The handy man went through his morning routine and then went over to see his neighbor to find out the cause for the roudy awakening he recieved.

As he exited his front door he noticed the condition of his neighbors home. It was shocking and pitiful. He immediately rushed over to his neighbors house and knocked on the door. When it was opened he began a discussion with the neighbor about his life, small talk at first and then probing a little deeper. When the time was right he mentioned the condition of the house and that it was likely to be condemmed by the city if action wasn't taken. The house owner saddly nodded when this was mentioned. But the handy man didn't stop there. He mentioned that starting tomorrow he had a week with no jobs scheduled and that he would be more than happy to bring the house up to code.
___

Both the Inspector and the handy man made the excapt same judgement call about their neighbors house, but the actions taken by each were completely different. There are somethings in Christianity that are matters of consience, there are others that are not. When you have a brother that is failing in a criticle area you shouldn't ignore it and say "lets not judge." It is your obligation to restore your brother.

Originally Posted by NLT

Galatians 6:1
Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer[a] is overcome by some sin, you who are godly[b] should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself.

[Jo Mo]

Firstly, I did not place this in here to be argued about. Only to be a light in the darkness.

I was only proving a point that God looks on the heart not the outward man. And no it wasn't my intention to distract anyone. If I had realized that I was offending them in the first place I would have apologized to them and asked them to forgive me. This incident occurred many years ago while still young in the Lord. It was only afterward that I realized what had taken place.

If you will reread that verse you quoted again. You will notice that you just said the same thing I said in quote.

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Of course it does'nt come magically, but by teaching of the Word they will learn it, and God will reveal that to them.

Christ is the ultimate judge of all living and dead. He is just, we are not.
Besides the religious men of his time were the servants of the temple of God. As you may already know from the scriptures of old, the Old Testament, God many times rebuked the priests for their evil while in office of the church. Jesus was merely reminding them of God's judgement upon them.

There you go. Hypocrisy is one of God peeves against believers who say they are believers. Just like the Pharisees. I agree with you.

Jeff, I appreciate your take on this. And I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think you understand where I am coming from. I would suggest that you reread what I posted again. And perhaps you will then see what I am saying. And please forgive me if there was any offense made. It is not my intention tear down but to build up. Thanks.