[ICTHUS]

If a minister wanted to, say, use the 1928 BCP in his parish and not the 1962 BCP, what would be the reprecussions of his doing so?

[TheProdigalModern]

Being cool. The 1928 is awesome.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by Vershal

Being cool. The 1928 is awesome.

I know - and of course the minister would be cool, I'm just wondering if his bishop would lay the ecclesiastical smackdown on him.

I'm not impressed by the revisions made to the BCP in the 1962 Canadian revision, especially to the Confession of Sin.

[Ridley's Own]

It depends on that rector's bishop, I would assume. He/She should go ahead and ask permission from both their vestry and bishop before making major changes like that and have the backing of the congregants, too. Liturgics is pastoral as well as theological, and having the congregants on board always makes life easier.

My guess is that if a rector switched Prayerbooks without anyone's permission, he/she would lose his job, either by the vestry or through the bishop. Most places will allow an older prayerbook with permission.

[ICTHUS]

Isaac - awesome, as always.

In case anyone was curious, the edits I'm referring to are principally these:

Originally Posted by The 1918 Canadian BCP

ALMIGHTY God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Maker of all things, Judge of all men: We acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness, Which we from time to time most grievously have committed, By thought, word, and deed, Against thy Divine Majesty, Provoking most justly thy wrath and indignation against us. We do earnestly repent, And are heartily sorry for these our misdoings; The remembrance of them is grievous unto us; The burden of them is intolerable. Have mercy upon us, Have mercy upon us, most merciful Father; For thy Son our Lord Jesus Christ's sake, Forgive us all that is past; And grant that we may ever hereafter Serve and please thee In newness of life, To the honour and glory of thy Name; Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Originally Posted by The 1962 Canadian BCP

ALMIGHTY God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Maker of all things, Judge of all men: We acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness, Which we from time to time most grievously have committed, By thought, word, and deed, Against thy Divine Majesty. We do earnestly repent, And are heartily sorry for these our misdoings. Have mercy upon us, most merciful Father; For thy Son our Lord Jesus Christ's sake, Forgive us all that is past; And grant that we may ever hereafter Serve and please thee In newness of life, To the honour and glory of thy Name; Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

I'm convinced that the edit of the words "the remembrance of them is grievous to us" and "the burden of them is intolerable" represents a shift away from an understanding of the soul-damning, opressive nature of sin and the righteousness of Christ, and His ability to relieve that burden (which is intolerable)

[Ted Logan]

This reminds me of a time when my music minister and I were asked to lead the music for a diocesan retreat, and she had chosen "In Christ Alone" as one of the songs we were going to do. The priest in charge asked her to change it because the second verse goes like this:

In Christ alone, who took on flesh
Fullness of God in helpless babe
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones He came to save
Till on that cross as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on Him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live

He said, "Well, the song isn't too bad, but that verse... I mean, it might be uncomfortable for people when it says, 'The wrath of God was satisfied.' Not everyone believes that."

I was so angry. I wondered, "What kind of priest could say such a thing?" If there are those who don't believe it, we had better be singing it, preaching it, and teaching it. Like the solution to heresy is to ignore it.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by Aaron Adams

This reminds me of a time when my music minister and I were asked to lead the music for a diocesan retreat, and she had chosen "In Christ Alone" as one of the songs we were going to do. The priest in charge asked her to change it because the second verse goes like this:

In Christ alone, who took on flesh
Fullness of God in helpless babe
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones He came to save
Till on that cross as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on Him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live

He said, "Well, the song isn't too bad, but that verse... I mean, it might be uncomfortable for people when it says, 'The wrath of God was satisfied.' Not everyone believes that."

I was so angry. I wondered, "What kind of priest could say such a thing?" If there are those who don't believe it, we had better be singing it, preaching it, and teaching it. Like the solution to heresy is to ignore it.

Yikes, Aaron.

That reminds me, are you related somehow to the music minister at your church? She has the same last name as you.

[Ted Logan]

I told you on the phone last night, but for the rest of those reading this thread, no, we're not related (as far as we know). Her husband's of Irish descent, and my father's of English.

[ICTHUS]

Originally Posted by Aaron Adams

I told you on the phone last night, but for the rest of those reading this thread, no, we're not related (as far as we know). Her husband's of Irish descent, and my father's of English.

I know you did, Aaron.

One of the things I was going to ask you on the phone last night: which prayerbook does ECUSA use? Does it include the verbage that was deleted from the 1962 Canadian BCP that I highlighted above?

[Ridley's Own]

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

One of the things I was going to ask you on the phone last night: which prayerbook does ECUSA use? Does it include the verbage that was deleted from the 1962 Canadian BCP that I highlighted above?

The 1979 BCP is the one when use, and the Rite I confession contains the "most grievous" verbage. The Rite II confessions says:

Most Merciful God,
We confess that we have sinned against you,
in thought, word and deed,
by what we have done, and by what we have left undone.
We have not loved you with our whole hearts.
We have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
We are truly sorry, and we humbly repent.
FOr the sake of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
Have mercy on us and forgive us,
that we may delight in your will
and walk in your ways,
to the glory of your Name.
Amen.


I did that by memory, so a couple of phrasings may be slightly off.